Girls could be what "saves" our sport.....

[darth vomitus]

..... especially at the college level.

http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2014/October/29/War-of-the-Roses-Carver-Hawkeye

 

[JYMF]

Get rid of singlets on middle and high school level. #1 reason why kids don't try the sport. All about image now. MMA gets it. Imagine what would happen if they mandated singlets in that sport. Just not cool. It's a new age and our sport and several of the organizations that govern the sport must get out of the dark ages.

 

[darth vomitus]

I hope you are proposing a tight fitting tee and shorts like a couple of colleges tried a few years back and not proposing those kids go with fight shorts and no top. I've heard all the "I think singlets are gay" arguments, but I think that isn't as big a deal now because of MMA. Most kids that don't like it argue that cause they have a gut.

If you want middle school kids to participate in greater numbers do a better job drawing a correlation between wrestling and football success. Kids know football. Kids all think they will play football in college and the NFL. Plenty of examples of highly successful football players who once wrestled. Just a season or two ago Clemson had a multi time state champ from a smaller school. Announcers talked about that a lot. A couple of weeks ago I heard the announcers of a game talking about the NFL prospects of a "short" center. They said he never got knocked over or lost balance because he was a Georgia state champ. Play that angle up when recruiting kids.

Now, JYMF, tell me your opinion of expanding girls wrestling (girls wrestling other girls)....

 

[JYMF]

Wow Darth, that's brilliant! Haven't thought about that. So all I have to do is talk to football players, coaches, and parents and convince them that wrestling would make them better football players? Amazing! I've only been doing that for the past 26 years, and continue to see numbers fall (for kids who actaully have some ability and potential in the sport). The reason why numbers nationwide ( #5/6 NHFS ) have held steady is because of kids who are new to athletics and sports in general continue to try it at a steady rate. Your football argument, while admirable is not a strong one in most cases. In fact, football has been a primary reason why many kids have left the sport with visions of sugarplums (college/NFL/$) in their heads.
Football is king and will continue to be. Why.... because there is $ to promote,market, and make it available to every kid under the sun in the U.S. Just turn on the TV any day, any time of year, and you can find football. Additonally, promoters and marketers know what sells...music, cheerleaders, cool uniforms, helmets, commercials, etc....
Too many FB players, coaches, etc...feed a bunch of crap into kid's heads about "playin at the next level." So Billy gives up everything but FB, and pursues his D1 and NFL dream. Lifting, summer sessions, combo camps, sending film to college programs, etc... So where does it end up? In 90% of the cases, the next level for Billy means the nosebleed section of the stadium after he had to buy a ticket to get in. Or maybe he gets a walk-on chance at the Lousianna School of Culinary Art. After all, they are the defending "Division 5, NFBCD5 National Champs. They can win the title and have a hell of a tailgate party afterward. (Sarcasm Alert)

MMA..the fastest growing sport in the WORLD. They get it. It's a cool sport that promotes an image with swagger. This would not be the case if the fighters were wearing singlets.

I have ran surveys on students among single classes, and entire grade levels, with such questions as what is your favorite sport at ***** high school? What do you like about it? What are some reasons why you might or might not try it? When it comes to wrestling.....guess what. The reason why not always states "the uniform." It ain't because a kid "has a gut". It's because they don't want to parade around in a skin tight suit that saw it's prime in 1970, when thats just how it was.

So, to answer your question.....the tight fitting shirt and shorts to which your refer is called a "doublet." It sorta floundered. I am in fact proposing fight shorts, biking tight shorts, and a tight fitting Under Armor type shirt.
If NFHS made that change the numbers would increase by 25% within 4 years. It would take a few years to wipe out the dorky, goofy image of the singlet (especially when Hollywood/sitcoms/kids shows) don't help with promoting the sport for the great, skillful art that it is. Instead, they throw a kid on a 10 x 10 mat with a singlet that's 2 times too small, and headgear thats 2 times too big, and he gets his ass kicked by someone the size of an amoeba or even worse, a girl.
No kid sittin at home watchin wants any part of that.
Now, if that same kid sits still and watches Rudy from start to finish, he's ready to play in the NFL the next day.
Wrestling just doesn't get that kind of support, although I hope the new movie Foxcatcher will help us out.

My opinion of expanding girls wrestling. Definately. It's here and is helping our sport. I hope to see it grow and become a part of any high school or college program; but is not the saving grace.
What will save us is getting out of the dark ages, evolving, and understanding marketing/promotions.
It is not telling a kid how wrestling will make him a better football player. It's listening to the kids and what they are saying and doing.
I can run a wrestling unit in a PE class and kids go ape s*** crazy over it. Why? because they are relaxed and wearing a pair of shorts and t-shirt. If I told them that tomorow we will be wearing singlets, I would have a 75% absenteeism rate that day, and of the ones who were present, 90% of them would not dress out.

Additonally, and I could go on forever about this....the NCAA does not want sports like ours to grow because there is too much power and money to be found in the two big hitters...football and basketball. Take a look at the new power conferences being formed. They can do whatever they want, which will only lead to bigger stadiums, bigger recruiting, and bigger stars in the eyes of some young high school football player with dreams of "playin at the next level." It will lead to more restrictions and elimination of college wrestling programs.

In closing, Darth, I have pursued every type of marketing,recruiting, and promotional ploy known to man....even telling FB players how wrestling will help them. A few have bought into it, and they would tell you that yes, it does help. But that is not the answer. Football is huge, MMA is huge, BB is huge, and they are all marketed with the interest of the public and those seeking entertainment in mind.

Last thought...to test my theory (although this would not happen). Let's propose that all high school basketball teams go back to wearing the 1980 style nutcutter shorts this season. Numbers will fall off the charts, and kids will go play BB at the Y. When the Michigan FabFive broke out the long shorts back years ago, the day of the nutcutter shorts in men's BB was over. The sport changed and evolved.

I'm all for tradition and history....thats why I say leave the singlet on the college or at least the international scene. By that point the kid is sold on the sport and would wrestle in a damn dress if he had to.
The most important part of the process is getting the kid involved at a young age.

 

[darth vomitus]

Hey JYMF, tone down the smart a$$. I made a suggestion - one suggestion. Trust me, I am no American throwball fan. Agree that kids are not participating in the numbers they used to, but that is more a result of societal changes than the singlet. I didn't like wearing a singlet, but I still wrestled. I bet most former wrestlers weren't excited about wearing a singlet but they still wrestled. In my opinion not wrestling because you do not want to wear a singlet is an excuse and another way of saying, "I'm not tough enough," without actually admitting it. The singlet is in place because wrestling is a body-to-body sport where loose fitting clothing gets in the way; not to mention, can cause injury if a hand gets wrapped in it. I know we practice in fight shorts and tees, but the singlet is better for competition.IMO. Try conveying the fact that due to the nature of the sport, wrestling will make a kid a better athlete in whichever sport is their primary activity.

As for football steering their players away from wrestling, I agree. I think it is the same for other sports as well. #1 coaches want their kids to specialize and wrestling gets in the way of that, but more to the point wrestling, and especially practice, are just too tough for most kids. That's what make the sport great and unique - it is only for a few individuals. You've been involved with the sport for 26 years? How often have you seen a football player come out for wrestling only to quit the first week because practice was a little more intense than he was used to? I have seen that quite a bit.

I have also seen a big growth in elementary aged kids who probably aren't bothered by wearing a singlet. Start the kids then, don't burn them out, and they won't have a "singlet issue" when they get to middle school.

I don't know you, but maybe it's you they don't want to wrestle for and not the singlet. It's been my experience that certain coaches can get kids to wrestle regardless of their discomfort with a singlet. Certain coaches don't have the charisma to attract athletic kids. I never knew Jim Barnes or BD LaPrad to have trouble getting football players out. Maybe you just need to change your recruiting personality...

 

[JYMF]

Dude...you're right.
You don't know me. I suggest you ask someone who does. I probably forgot more about the sport this morning than you will ever know.

The guys you mentioned ( BD and Barnes) I know every well and have for a very long time. Again. Ask someone.


Guess we just have to disagree on some points, agree on others.

 

[countykid]

I can't believe i am about to say this..... Darth is right about the youth point.

I have 2 nephews (K & 2nd), one is on his 2nd year, the other is his first year. They have both put their gear on (singlets included)every other night, just because they are excited to start wrestling in two weeks. Yes that's right, in 2 weeks! Then they train 2 nights a week til the end of January, only compete in 4-5 tournaments and then the coaches say "see ya next year!"

Most won't guess what state this craziness takes place.

 

[mhs125]

Has anyone been reading Wade Schalles's thoughts on saving wrestling? They're extremely interesting. You can find it all on www.wadeschalles.com. He brings up a lot of things that might not be popular, but it's hard to argue with some of his points.

 

[JYMF]

Great article. You can always count on Schalles to shoot straight and speak his mind. Never forget workin out in the Clemson room in 1983, when the legendary Wade Schalles walked by and actually noticed me. Walked over to me and as only he could put it said....'That fireman's looks like S***" Swallowed my pride and got better with a fireman's.
Two years later on a recruiting trip to Old Dominion, he had a picture of himself pinnin some dude in a spladle hangin outside on his office door. Guy definitely does not lack confidence or truthfulness. If you can back it up, it ain't braggin"

Sharp guy and the sport could definitely learn from some of his advice and forward thinking.


This post was edited on 11/5 7:56 AM by JYMF

 

[darth vomitus]

And on the original topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=b08sE3JfGIQ&app=desktop

 

[JYMF]

Great clip. Girls wrestling is definately on the rise and will only help our sport grow. If she sticks with it, I have a 10 year old in my youth program right now who is going to be a monster. She is the daughter of one of my asst. coaches and is crushing most boys here age. Pumps out pull ups and back handsprings/flips like it's her job.
Have a feeling though that gymnastics might be her path. Not surprisingly, she is a beast there as well.

 

[darth vomitus]

Here you go JYMF.....

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251972-2015-FloNationals/article/30325-FloNationals-Uniform-Announcement#.VQbXUtLF8hM

 

[MOMMYD]

I feel obligated to say a little something on this topic. As a strong supporter of women's wrestling, What I picture my little mind is going to watch a dual meet at a local high school and seeing two mats and two schools. Starting at 6pm the JVs wrestle then at 7pm the varsities. Guys on one mat and Girls on the other.

As far as the original topic, I have always felt this way because it would help beat title IX and could help save men's programs. WCWA - Women's College Wrestling Association is currently up to 28 Colleges/Universities and growing on the average of 2 new programs per year.

Yes there are more girls wrestling- this year I am taking close to 15 female wrestlers to Oklahoma City to compete in USAW's Girls Folkstyle Nationals and this event is for all age groups. So, your 10 year old "Beast" can go to find out how "Beastly" she really is and I am hosting a War of the Roses Tournament on Sunday, March 22 at Hillcrest High School.

One thing most parents and coaches forget is girls mature faster than boys. So, at the younger ages the girl has the advantage. This is true up to about 7-8th grade, then when they get into high school the tables have completely turned. Then the girl is at a disadvantage. She has to be extremely technical to compete with the guys strength. Also, the guys are allowed 7% body fat and the girls are allowed 12% body fat. That is a 5% difference of muscle verses girl parts.

This is why the girls at the middle school and high school level need a league of the own. The girls want to wrestle, but if they are starting in high school - they really do not want to get beat up by the boys. THEIR Dads do not want this so we deny a girl that can be an outstanding wrestler the opportunity because of the fear of getting hurt by a guy.

Now, the girls that have the courage to wrestle have to face some kid that is willing to hurt her just because they do not want to lose to a "even worse a girl"- forget the fact that she might be a better wrestler. So now we are jeopardizing a girls health because a kid or even worse a Coach does not think a girl should wrestle.

I would wager if every high school put up a sign-up sheet for girls to wrestle only other girls, they would fill a roster of 10 - 20 wrestlers.

Robert Delgado

 

[darth vomitus]

I agree MommyD. What I would like to see is a girl's team wrestling freestyle with 6 to 10 weight classes in the fall. Fall because it would not compete with the limited space the boys have, and you might entice the boy's coaches with an extra supplement. There are way to many sporting opportunities for girls in the Spring. Freestyle is the obvious choice as that is what the girls in college wrestle.

I THINK you need to have 16 schools participating to get the sport recognized by the SCHSL. Maybe you should start petitioning 4A schools, as they have the largest student bodies, to try and get it started.

I have always felt that if the NCAA ever recognizes women's wrestling it might help Clemson reinstate the program. However, I do not think women's wrestling will ever get large enough for NCAA recognition if high schools across the country do not provide the numbers for college programs.

 

[JYMF]

Great article Darth. I see many counter-point arguments to the case. I too am a tradionalist in general, however; I realize the importance of keeping up with public interest and trends where sport and competittoon are concerned. Not evolving or changing would be the equal of a business or business person 30 years ago refusing to move into the computer age and remaining with a typewriter and thermofax copy system to run thoir operation. For those who do not know what a thermofax is, it was a copying sytem where a master was placed on a round barrel type tube. The sytem had a hose running into a can of blue alcohol/ink substance and you turned the barrel by hand to make copies. Generally, it looked like an ink pen exploded on the paper when it was finished. Eventually the out-dated business pracatices would cost the company, it would fold, and people would lose jobs.
Unless our sport makes changes, we will slowly see numbers fall (high school programs will be elimininated), and the sport will become a club focused operation, very much like men's gymnastics now. Is this bad for technical development? Possibly not. Texas is a great example. Before they had sanctioned teams and programs, they were club based and produced a lot of really good kids. (Brandon Slay)
However; there is power in numbers and our sport needs it.....500,000 average kids are a lot stronger statement than 25,000 pretty good kids.
Just rambling, but as I have seen the ups and downs over the years, I strongly feel change is needed, and not just with the uniforms.