Congrats to all of the student athletes who are moving on to play at the next level! This thread is not started to undermine chasing a dream or playing at the next level. However, it seems that we never hear exactly how much money a player is getting for baseball. NOT lottery money, school aid available to everyone, financial aid, academic money etc, but no kidding baseball money. Not looking for names, schools would be nice, but don't really have to see that either. Grad yr, school and amount would be great. Example; 2014, UCLA 8K.
HOW MUCH MONEY ARE PLAYERS GETTING FOR BASEBALL?
- Thread starter GS194
- Start date
You're wasting your time. My educated guess is that over 50% of the kids playing college baseball in SC are getting zero or token (book) money. I'm counting the JUCO's, NAIA, D2, and D1 schools in this guess. For example, I think SMC has 1 (ONE) athletic scholarship, so nobody there is getting any athletic money worth mentioning. I suspect the same is true of Salkahatchie, Sumter, Lancaster, and Florence-Darlington, and probably the NAIA schools as well. The D2's MAY fund up to 9 scholarships. However, my guess is not all, if any, are fully funded. Some, like Erskine, are notorious for having 70 kids on their roster. I don't know if they are fully funded or not, but even if they are, ain't nobody there getting more than token athletic money. D2's are still allowed to divide what money they have up as they see fit. So, you probably have a bunch of guys getting book money.
D1's can no longer give book money and/or the token $500 and $1000 scholarships they used to give. If they give any money at all, it must be at least 25%. Plus, they can only divide that money between, at most, 27 kids. SO, any D1 school with a 35 man roster has AT LEAST 8 kids getting zero. HOWEVER, some have a lot more than that. For example, Wofford only funds around 4-5 of the allowable 11.7 scholarships. So they probably have a lot more than 8 kids getting zero athletic money. Other D1 schools that I know do not fund the fund the full 11.7 include PC and Furman. There may be more than that.
Bottom line, if you and/or your kid are concerned about the amount of athletic money he will get, you might want to look at a different sport. Good Grades and SAT's will get him a lot more money.
D1's can no longer give book money and/or the token $500 and $1000 scholarships they used to give. If they give any money at all, it must be at least 25%. Plus, they can only divide that money between, at most, 27 kids. SO, any D1 school with a 35 man roster has AT LEAST 8 kids getting zero. HOWEVER, some have a lot more than that. For example, Wofford only funds around 4-5 of the allowable 11.7 scholarships. So they probably have a lot more than 8 kids getting zero athletic money. Other D1 schools that I know do not fund the fund the full 11.7 include PC and Furman. There may be more than that.
Bottom line, if you and/or your kid are concerned about the amount of athletic money he will get, you might want to look at a different sport. Good Grades and SAT's will get him a lot more money.
Spot on Cohaze. Baseball is a non-revenue sport. Not much money there at all. In a lot of cases, if a kid is getting over $1k to play baseball, the cost of tuition is so high that the parents are still having to fork out thousands for the kid at that particular school. Juco's don't have to fork out a ton of money (especially for in-state kids that have over a 3.0) because the LIFE will pretty much pick up the tuition and the parents will only have to fork out rent, food, spending money, etc. (still costly). What makes no sense to me is the amount that is spent on a kid playing travel ball, for a "scholarship" or "guaranteed walk-on" spot. If they are traveling 5-7 weekends and maybe a week at the PG, they have got to have 10K + in baseball each summer. Do that for 4 or 5 years and the parent could have paid for 2 or 3 years of college (which they are doing anyway with the small amount of baseball scholarship money). Not starting another discussion at all. Just seems crazy to me. I have always been a firm believer that if a kid can play, the coach will find him. There are no hidden players any more with all the social media, internet, youtube, etc. Every kid gets seen at some point, even if they are not good enough to play at the next level.
As I'm watching baseball tonight and listening to all the former travel ball players names called in the first round, it's becoming more common knowledge that if you want quality venues that cater to scouts (college and pro) and to experience some competition outside of your local region, you're going to have to pay for it. Playing at college fields vs teams from all over with paid coaches (many college/pro experience) vs national competition and college/pro umps costs money.
If you can get picked up anywhere just go play local rec ball. Players slip through the cracks every jr and sr summer because they get the wrong people in their ear. Modern recruiting requires you to go where the scouts go, so they can see you compete against your peers in the same recruiting class, and the coaches hand out multiple scout rosters each game.
It's easy to spend 10k on summer family travel expenses without participating in any activity, don't just throw traveling teams under the bus. Last I checked in America people can choose. Also, there is such a thing as travel ball scholarships. Also many teams are non-profit. Legion and other leagues with quality juniors, you need to go to your target colleges camps and have a very good showing in that brief window that you're on campus. That or make the state tournament and show out in one of those games with the right eyes watching.
This is how modern recruiting works. Since college baseball isn't fully funded, the costs trickle down as staffs are limited and scouts want to see as many kids as possible in a short amount of time.
If you can get picked up anywhere just go play local rec ball. Players slip through the cracks every jr and sr summer because they get the wrong people in their ear. Modern recruiting requires you to go where the scouts go, so they can see you compete against your peers in the same recruiting class, and the coaches hand out multiple scout rosters each game.
It's easy to spend 10k on summer family travel expenses without participating in any activity, don't just throw traveling teams under the bus. Last I checked in America people can choose. Also, there is such a thing as travel ball scholarships. Also many teams are non-profit. Legion and other leagues with quality juniors, you need to go to your target colleges camps and have a very good showing in that brief window that you're on campus. That or make the state tournament and show out in one of those games with the right eyes watching.
This is how modern recruiting works. Since college baseball isn't fully funded, the costs trickle down as staffs are limited and scouts want to see as many kids as possible in a short amount of time.
You cant hide a good player. If you are good enough to get drafted....you will get drafted, it doesn't matter where or who you play for. You don't have to pay a lot of money to play for the "big name" travel teams to be seen by college coaches.. If you want to go to a particular school....go to their camp.....they will be honest with you. Most D2 schools don't turn away any player because the schools need your tuition money. If you want to play college baseball, there is a place for you no matter how good you are.
To throw a blanket statement out that if you're good enough you'll get drafted is not accurate. Every scout that's been doing it long enough has missed, it's not an exact science. Brett Gardner went undrafted, tried to walk on at cofc and got cut. Now plays CF for the NY Yankees. Grayson Greiner was more than good enough to be drafted out of HS, but wasn't.
If you don't go to a pro camp and no pro scouts see you, don't expect to get drafted. Much like if you don't go on campus and show out (or maybe you go and have a bad day) and no college coaches are at your team's games, don't expect to be offered.
What you're saying is like "if a college is committing ncaa violations they're going to be caught and punished every time, nothing will slip through the cracks". But the ncaa just doesn't have the staff to police everyone with 100% efficiency and effectiveness all the time. I think we've seen that play out. The same is true of college coaches and pro scouts looking for players, cant have eyes everywhere all the time.
If you don't go to a pro camp and no pro scouts see you, don't expect to get drafted. Much like if you don't go on campus and show out (or maybe you go and have a bad day) and no college coaches are at your team's games, don't expect to be offered.
What you're saying is like "if a college is committing ncaa violations they're going to be caught and punished every time, nothing will slip through the cracks". But the ncaa just doesn't have the staff to police everyone with 100% efficiency and effectiveness all the time. I think we've seen that play out. The same is true of college coaches and pro scouts looking for players, cant have eyes everywhere all the time.
I agree to an extent; I do think that if a player is good enough, he will be found but is going to have to get some exposure.
As for money, COHAZE is dead on about the revenue just not being there for baseball players. I have had relatives (nephew's) experience this first hand.
But the travel ball - showcase situation, to me, is out of hand, as well. Why in the world would a parent pay 300.00 for a showcase JUST BECAUSE they have 50 pro-scouts there when their son is not a pro-prospect? Similar question: Why in the world would a parent pay the high price of some of the travel ball teams when their son may not even make the JV squad at the high school?
And is the Showcase-game format really functional for scouting? I mean, how many at bats does a kid need to get and how many balls does he need to field in an effort to get "evaluated" properly?
With regard to your questions about why parents spend the money they do on showcases and travel teams:
1. Fear. They're afraid if they don't spend the money, Little Timmy will be left behind. Some travel ball programs prey on this fear.
2. Many, if not most, parents are clueless with regard to what it takes to play college ball. It sounds crazy, but some simply don't realize that a senior RHP with a 78 mph fastball is not gonna pitch in college, unless he's got some sort of gimmick. They don't understand that high school and travel ball successes are largely irrelevant.
3. Some are sold a bill of goods. "Come play with us and we'll get you exposure." Well, sometimes that "exposure" turns into multiple tournaments with few, or no, scouts in sight.
Note that I am not saying ALL travel teams are like this, but there are many that are.
1. Fear. They're afraid if they don't spend the money, Little Timmy will be left behind. Some travel ball programs prey on this fear.
2. Many, if not most, parents are clueless with regard to what it takes to play college ball. It sounds crazy, but some simply don't realize that a senior RHP with a 78 mph fastball is not gonna pitch in college, unless he's got some sort of gimmick. They don't understand that high school and travel ball successes are largely irrelevant.
3. Some are sold a bill of goods. "Come play with us and we'll get you exposure." Well, sometimes that "exposure" turns into multiple tournaments with few, or no, scouts in sight.
Note that I am not saying ALL travel teams are like this, but there are many that are.
I agree with you on the fear factor. But what is crazy is, if you go to a weekend travel tournament, most (not all) of the kids out there are about the same caliber we USED to see in rec ball with Dixie Youth.
BINGO. We really shouldn't call them travel teams. We definitely shouldn't refer to them as "elite", "showcase", or "select" teams, as they like to refer to themselves. They're WEEKEND REC teams. Most are exactly the same type teams you used to see in Dixie/LL/Ripken, if that good. The only difference is now they play on the weekends in low level events. (Hard to call them "tournaments" when they have only a handful of teams).
Of course, the parents and players don't see it that way. They think since they're playing "travel" ball they're special players. There's one guy over here that has three "travel" teams that he put together, one for each of his sons. They all go by the same name. Let's call them the STARS. My son agreed to help out with HS practice last fall. He came home laughing about how many of the new kids, AND their parents, showed up wearing their STARS gear.
I am convinced that this Weekend Rec Ball is giving some of these kids and parents a false sense of security. They think playing sorry tournaments on the weekend is all they need to do to become good players. Boy, are they in for a rude awakening.
To give you another example. There's another guy over here that has two teams in the 15/16 age group. I know kids on both teams. I asked one kid which team he was on, Team A or Team B. His response was "Team B, Team A is the showcase team." I about cracked up. Team A has nothing to showcase. I've been keeping track of them this summer. I think they've won two or three games, and at least one of those was against Team B, in a "tournament" that only had 4 teams.
Again, since I know Will is going to chime in eventually, I am not saying this is true of ALL "travel/elite/select" teams, but it is probably true of the vast majority.
Of course, the parents and players don't see it that way. They think since they're playing "travel" ball they're special players. There's one guy over here that has three "travel" teams that he put together, one for each of his sons. They all go by the same name. Let's call them the STARS. My son agreed to help out with HS practice last fall. He came home laughing about how many of the new kids, AND their parents, showed up wearing their STARS gear.
I am convinced that this Weekend Rec Ball is giving some of these kids and parents a false sense of security. They think playing sorry tournaments on the weekend is all they need to do to become good players. Boy, are they in for a rude awakening.
To give you another example. There's another guy over here that has two teams in the 15/16 age group. I know kids on both teams. I asked one kid which team he was on, Team A or Team B. His response was "Team B, Team A is the showcase team." I about cracked up. Team A has nothing to showcase. I've been keeping track of them this summer. I think they've won two or three games, and at least one of those was against Team B, in a "tournament" that only had 4 teams.
Again, since I know Will is going to chime in eventually, I am not saying this is true of ALL "travel/elite/select" teams, but it is probably true of the vast majority.
Per Baseball America "According to Little League stats, fewer than 10 percent of all youth baseball players will even play high school baseball, let alone college or pro ball. Only 6.7 percent of high school seniors go on to play NCAA baseball—all divisions. Of that elite group, 9.7 percent will play professional ball at any level. Fewer than 1 percent of high school players will be drafted."
I think those stats from LL are applicable to what we are seeing in this "weekend baseball" environment.
Not the intent of my original question, but GREAT discussion. Intent of my original question was more to do with "the vague seemingly unwilling nature of people to share amounts a kid receives". I think this plays right in to the fear or being left behind you guys mention.
In response to recent post. IMO, TB/SC is about the $$$$. Normally the only folks who are satisfied with these arrangements at the end of the day are the tournament directors and maybe some "for profit" organizations. YES, some orgs/teams do a GREAT job! Kudos to you folks for the effort you put in. In TB/SC; things have changed since I was first exposed to it 10+ years ago. Originally, when I heard or saw a kid that played TB/SC, to me, it meant something. I was probably looking at one of the better kids in the area for that age grp. Much like legion when I was growing up. Now; simply means that the parents are willing to write a check. Have not seen it in girls yet, but see lots of boys playing lower level TB who do not/can not play school ball. Why spend the $$$? Go play rec and enjoy the game. I see D1 commits still paying huge amounts to play SC. Why? Seems everyone has the desire to travel; majority of those who do play coll, play in state. Out of state tuition usually drives playing close to home, so why go to CO, VA or FL for a tourn?
- My limited exposure to Legion ball in the low country recently is that it is similar in talent to a lower level TB team, but without the high expense. Probably a good fit for some, but sadly, not the Legion many of us remember. No similar option for girls that I know of.
- In the low country, atleast one Dixie baseball league seems to have a niche and has been able to retain some quality players and keep the cost very reasonable. Their players play a combination of league games and local TB/SC tourns. I think it is successful because it has been around for a while, and alumni support it. Not sure it is something you could start today and have the same results. Probably not a perfect scenario or good fit for all, but seems to work.
- Some of the larger cities have gone to "elite" type leagues which I think is a move in the right direction. Start a local league, attract the best players in the area and play ball.
- If I were coaching TB/SC (again), I would play local. If parents decided, maybe one out of town "big" tourn a year. Even if I had the best team in the state for the age grp, I would simply play up an age grp until we ran into appropriate competition. I would think even the most delusional parent could understand the math behind this. It is normally not the ball that is so expensive, it is the travel. The money saved by this approach could be used by the family to send their player to camp at the coll they hope to attend, or hire a legitimate hitting, speed or pitching coach to work with the players. 5K is probably bottom end of what a team’s collective families spend on one out of town tourn. Think what could be done in the form of player development with that money.
Nothing against TB/SC, (been there, done that) as long as those involved have the means and are in tune to reality. This is a free country; FAR worse ways a family can spend a weekend other than sitting in some ballpark watching their kid play baseball. IMO too many are chasing dreams that are unrealistic and spending a ton of $$$ doing it. At the end of the day, it is the family’s decision to make.
In response to recent post. IMO, TB/SC is about the $$$$. Normally the only folks who are satisfied with these arrangements at the end of the day are the tournament directors and maybe some "for profit" organizations. YES, some orgs/teams do a GREAT job! Kudos to you folks for the effort you put in. In TB/SC; things have changed since I was first exposed to it 10+ years ago. Originally, when I heard or saw a kid that played TB/SC, to me, it meant something. I was probably looking at one of the better kids in the area for that age grp. Much like legion when I was growing up. Now; simply means that the parents are willing to write a check. Have not seen it in girls yet, but see lots of boys playing lower level TB who do not/can not play school ball. Why spend the $$$? Go play rec and enjoy the game. I see D1 commits still paying huge amounts to play SC. Why? Seems everyone has the desire to travel; majority of those who do play coll, play in state. Out of state tuition usually drives playing close to home, so why go to CO, VA or FL for a tourn?
- My limited exposure to Legion ball in the low country recently is that it is similar in talent to a lower level TB team, but without the high expense. Probably a good fit for some, but sadly, not the Legion many of us remember. No similar option for girls that I know of.
- In the low country, atleast one Dixie baseball league seems to have a niche and has been able to retain some quality players and keep the cost very reasonable. Their players play a combination of league games and local TB/SC tourns. I think it is successful because it has been around for a while, and alumni support it. Not sure it is something you could start today and have the same results. Probably not a perfect scenario or good fit for all, but seems to work.
- Some of the larger cities have gone to "elite" type leagues which I think is a move in the right direction. Start a local league, attract the best players in the area and play ball.
- If I were coaching TB/SC (again), I would play local. If parents decided, maybe one out of town "big" tourn a year. Even if I had the best team in the state for the age grp, I would simply play up an age grp until we ran into appropriate competition. I would think even the most delusional parent could understand the math behind this. It is normally not the ball that is so expensive, it is the travel. The money saved by this approach could be used by the family to send their player to camp at the coll they hope to attend, or hire a legitimate hitting, speed or pitching coach to work with the players. 5K is probably bottom end of what a team’s collective families spend on one out of town tourn. Think what could be done in the form of player development with that money.
Nothing against TB/SC, (been there, done that) as long as those involved have the means and are in tune to reality. This is a free country; FAR worse ways a family can spend a weekend other than sitting in some ballpark watching their kid play baseball. IMO too many are chasing dreams that are unrealistic and spending a ton of $$$ doing it. At the end of the day, it is the family’s decision to make.
