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Legree Oswald & State Committee Screw The Pooch, Again

COHAZE

Five Star Prospect
Nov 12, 2004
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For anyone just catching up on the situation, there was a major incident in Tuesday's Sumter v. Lexington game. In a nutshell, Sumter batter drops his bat, charges the mound, puts pitcher in choke hold/head lock, benches empty, etc. Multiple ejections, on both sides.

At the time this occurred, Lexington (4 seed) was beating Sumter (No 1), 4-2 in the bottom of the 7th. I BELIEVE there were 2 outs, but would not swear to that. Despite leading the game when SUMTER'S batter charged the mound, Lexington was declared the loser by forfeit because after the ejections, they did not have enough players to continue.

The infamous State Committee, met yesterday, cancelled last night's game, and changed the series to a best of 3. No players are suspended, not even the one that charged the mound and assaulted the pitcher. No teams are disqualified, as two out of state teams were during a previous brawl in Sumter several years ago.

As one Legion coach told me yesterday, the Lesson Learned from all of this is if you are ever in danger of losing to a weak team, have somebody charge the mound. There will be no repercussions and you will get a Complete Do Over. This coach also told me that within minutes of Legree Oswald's decision, he was getting texts from college coaches telling him how badly Oswald had handled this, and what a black eye this was for Legion Baseball in S.C. No argument here.

I have been following Legion baseball in SC since 2005, my son's first year. There have ALWAYS been a lot of controversial, politically based shenanigans. This is just another classic example. And from what I have heard about some of the other stuff going on this year, things are getting worse rather than better. Case in point, Inman Post ousts it's long time Athletic Officer/Coach. What does Oswald and his cronies do? They give him his own team, totally unaffiliated with the Union Post. Since when are non-Legion teams allowed to play Legion baseball? As a result of this dubious move, Union ends up with two teams, neither of which is very good, and neither of which has enough players. Multiple forfeits ensue. Of course, despite being terrible, both teams make the "playoffs."

And this is just a drop in the bucket. I am hearing all sorts of stories about teams playing fast and loose with the roster rules, while the powers that be turn a blind eye. The rule is 18 guys. Yes, it's a ridiculously low number, but if you use more than that you're cheating. Earlier this week, Inman and Walhalla were allowed to play two 7 inning double-headers, rather than 4 9-inning games. I thought 9 inning games were sacrosanct in Legion baseball, especially in the playoffs? The stated reason was cut down on travel, but that's nonsense. Teams in some leagues travel further than that for regular season games. But, those 7 inning games really help, especially when you have pitchers on vacation.

But, back to the Sumter situation. For a player to charge the mound and assault a pitcher, and get off scot free, is absurd. This kid is lucky he wasn't charged with assault. MLB, not exactly the epitome of discipline or sportsmanship, would suspend a guy multiple games for something like this. But, in SC it's just swept under the rug.

I have heard the Legion Pledge/Code of Sportsmanship so many times I know it by heart. Oswald and his Committee have now rendered the PLEDGE MEANINGLESS. I'm sorry, but attacking a player from the opposing team does NOT keep the RULES, keep faith with his teammates, keep his TEMPER, etc.

The Legion Baseball Rule Book also provides "...players who...conduct themselves in an unsportsmanlike manner THAT WOULD DISCREDIT THIS PROGRAM may be removed by the department baseball committee." If charging the mound and physically assaulting a pitcher doesn't qualify, what does? But, it's not just the player who has discredited the program, it is Oswald and cohorts. You expect kids to do stupid things. Adults should know better.

To Oswald and the other members of the state committee I stay this, IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE. Thank you for your years of service, but it is time to step aside. As much as I hate to say it, Legion baseball is dying in South Carolina. You can blame it on travel ball, HS coaches, kids, and parents all you want. (And to a certain extent, you are right). But, you need to look in the mirror. YOU are also part of the problem. If it is to survive, Legion baseball needs to CHANGE. If you are incapable of changing with the times, step aside and let people who are take your place. There are people out there with a lot of good ideas ready to take the lead. LET THEM LEAD.

It's time to get rid of these ridiculous 9 inning games. It's time to increase rosters from 18 to 22, or more. It's time to institute pitch counts and mandatory days of rest for pitchers. And don't give me the "tradition" BS. What is more important to you, tradition or player health? Tradition or quality of play? Tradition or declining participation? Tradition or extinction?

Legion baseball remains a good program, but it could be so much better, if you let it.
 
Excellent point, to me Sumter was rewarded for charging the mound.

You forgot one scenario this year, Camden was awarded Josh Hernandez from AC Flora after many protests were filed saying that he was never released to play for Camden. The rule book states that at the point the player should be ruled ineligible and the team should have to forfeit all games which the player played in. Mr. Oswald ruled the player eligible and went around personally to get the releases from West Columbia, Pelion (Lower Lexington), and Lexington. If this is the case then a kid can play for any team in the state.

American Legion Baseball in the state of South Carolina is going down hill as you stated and it is because of one person, Legree Oswald!
 
I had not heard about the Hernandez situation. However, I have heard of other questionable player release scenarios, both this year, and in years past.

Below is what I have been able to piece together regarding the identities of the members of the state committee:
League 1: Lowcountry Area: Unknown, only one team in that League this year?
League 2: PeeDee Area: Bill Hardee
League 3: Sumter Area: Bill Brewer
League 4: Orangeburg-Manning area: Jimmy Hodge. I am told there have been no teams from this League in several years.
League 5: Rock Hill Area: Buck Schwing
League 6: Spartanburg-Union-Inman-Gaffney area: Tommy Ford
League 7: Greenville Area: Mark Jackson
League 8: Columbia Area: Billy Oswald

A few observations about this list:
1. The League 8 committee member, Billy Oswald, is the brother of the State Director, Legree Oswald.
2. The League 6 Committee member, Tommy Ford, was the AO/Coach at the Union Post for years. The Union Legion Post, under new leadership, terminated Ford from those positions earlier this year. Despite that termination, his buddies on the committee allowed him to form his own, Non-Legion Post affiliated, team and enter it in League 6. This robbed the official Union Post team of players. It resulted in two weak teams. It resulted in a lot of forfeits. This was not done for the kids. It was done for Tommy Ford.

Ford's team ended the season with a record of 6-14. Greer ended the season 6-12-1. Take a guess as to which of these teams got the higher seed, and therefore the weaker opponent, in the playoffs. If you guessed that Greer got the higher seed, you're missing the point. Ford, and/or the committee gave Ford's Non-Legion team the higher seed.
 
Wow, good stuff. Y'all are right it is time for it to come to an end with the current administration. The biggest thing to me is increasing the roster. We have complained about it for years, why can't it be done? This day in time you have kids go on vacation, travel ball tournaments, or just needing some rest. There is no way to get through a regular season with only 18 players and that's why you see so many forfeits. Not to mention you can't replace anyone once the season starts. Who made that rule? What if you have 5 kids get hurt, sick, leave for college early, quit.... It's not the teams fault or coaches fault that happened and now all of the sudden he doesn't have a team anymore. I know for fact that's what happened to Anderson who had a good team. He had 6 or so PO's on the team and they all got together and quit because they wanted to play a position. Then had 2 get hurt for the rest of the season and couldn't replace any of those guys on his roster. They would have been tied with Greenville for 2nd at seasons end if that did not happen. But the coaches hands were tied and the other kids were left upset because they couldn't fill a roster anymore.
 
Also if you're Sumter's coach, I don't think you can let that kid play for the rest of the series at least. If the committee doesn't do what's right maybe the coach will.
 
That's a great point. The Sumter coach, Steve Campbell, OR the Sumter Athletic Officer, Bill Lyons, could still do the right thing and discipline this kid. But, I'm not holding my breath. Unless the kid shows up with a tracking device on his ankle, he's gonna play.

Also if you're Sumter's coach, I don't think you can let that kid play for the rest of the series at least. If the committee doesn't do what's right maybe the coach will.
 
That idiot at Sumter is enjoying his ride with better players since he use to be at Dalzell and got an upgrade. He has no clue what his doing just winning so why would you do something like that if your own state director doesn't care to do it. Legion has been going down hill for a while now like you mentioned and you wonder why these kids never want to play or why their high school coaches coach throughout the whole summer with them and want them to play travel ball. Its reason like this that has changed legion and will soon be done in South Carolina. As far as non legion teams Hilton Head has been doing it for years they just wear the patch but pay to play for Hilton Head and this has been allowed for years so not surprised there is not more teams doing this since nobody really likes to deal with some of the legioneers since some have no clue what is really going on on the field.
 
As I predicted, Sumter's mound charger did indeed play last night. As expected, Lexington gets routed 20-0. Interesting quote by the Sumter coach, Steve Campbell, in the Sumter Daily Fishwrapper, "We wanted to go out and show everybody that we were appreciative of the break we got."
 
Here's another entry for the Legion Hall of Shame. Last night the Spartanburg Post 28 pitcher threw 140 pitches, in a 7 inning game in which Spartanburg run ruled Williamston. Spartanburg head coach is Micah Stancil. Of course, maybe things are getting better. Last year one Spartanburg kid threw 151 in one game and 169 in another. It will be interesting to see whether the kid who threw 115 Tuesday night is brought back to start again tonight.
 
I will bet they will bring him back on 2 days rest. Which is why you said earlier there has to be some sort of pitching rules. I've personally heard coaches with my own ears say they don't care about how many pitches they throw. In fact a lot of them don't even keep pitch counts so they really don't know how many they throw.
 
“He definitely went more pitches than I would have liked,” Stancil said. “But going into that seventh inning, up by 10, I had to give him a shot to close that thing out. …It was a great night on the mound.”
Pretty much falls under the heading of .......you can't fix stupid. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but how much more evidence can there be? How many more millions of dollars need to be spent? How many more medical professionals need to be quoted? How many more articles need to be published before the powers that be will respond appropriately to protect these kids? Because obviously some of the adults that are supervising them don't give a rip. " I had to give him a shot to close that thing out..." REALLY? Up by 10? I love how he says "it was a great night on the mound". THAT is the problem. It isn't about that one night. But obviously "coach" can't see the bigger picture.
 
North Carolina carries as many kids as they want until the June 30th deadline. Why can't we? Whats the same old reason we hear every single year.......insurance. Guess what! We use the same insurance as North Carolina!
 
you can until the playoffs where you can only have 18 so i guess they go ahead and at the start of the season just keep 18 bc some do not want to cut those kids after being there all season until playoffs
 
You're right, a lot of Legion coaches don't count pitches at all, particularly the old timers. True story. After a game in which his starter threw around 150 pitches, one of those old timers was asked about the pitch count. His response, "Well, a lot of those were change ups, and I don't count change ups." I don't care if he has been doing it for thirty years. This guy has NO CLUE. It is time for change. I'll pay for the retirement party.

I will bet they will bring him back on 2 days rest. Which is why you said earlier there has to be some sort of pitching rules. I've personally heard coaches with my own ears say they don't care about how many pitches they throw. In fact a lot of them don't even keep pitch counts so they really don't know how many they throw.
 
What this guy, and others, don't realize is it's not just the pitch count. It's also the number of pitches per inning. 140 pitches is bad enough. 140 over just 7 innings is even worse. That is, on average, 20 pitches per inning. However, I would be willing to bet that there were at least a couple of innings in which he threw 30+ pitches. High pitch innings add an increased element of risk. I read somewhere that once you cross around 20 pitches in an inning every pitch after that should be counted double.

“He definitely went more pitches than I would have liked,” Stancil said. “But going into that seventh inning, up by 10, I had to give him a shot to close that thing out. …It was a great night on the mound.”
Pretty much falls under the heading of .......you can't fix stupid. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but how much more evidence can there be? How many more millions of dollars need to be spent? How many more medical professionals need to be quoted? How many more articles need to be published before the powers that be will respond appropriately to protect these kids? Because obviously some of the adults that are supervising them don't give a rip. " I had to give him a shot to close that thing out..." REALLY? Up by 10? I love how he says "it was a great night on the mound". THAT is the problem. It isn't about that one night. But obviously "coach" can't see the bigger picture.
 
I am not a coach, but from what I understand you cannot legally have more than 18 on your roster (official or unofficial) in SC, at any time. There was a time, around 2005-2006, when they allowed you to keep up to 20 or 22 up until playoff time, or the end of June. My son's first year of Legion, he was told that he might not be on the roster after they had to cut down. However, I don't think SC has allowed more than 18 since that 1-2 year period.

It is my understanding that some League directors have turned a blind eye to and/or sanctioned rosters in excess of 18, either until playoffs or the deadline for submission of final rosters to National. But, I don't think this is legal under state rules. Perhaps Skools or someone with more knowledge of the situation can clarify this.

you can until the playoffs where you can only have 18 so i guess they go ahead and at the start of the season just keep 18 bc some do not want to cut those kids after being there all season until playoffs
 
Under National rules it states that you have to have 18 players by June 30th. The state implements the rule that you have to hand in a paper copy to your league director before your first game. If you hand in a paper roster with 18 players you can not drop and add any more to your roster. If you only handed in 15 you can add 3 and so on. Some teams from my knowledge have been adding and dropping all year. But here is the issue its not a violation of national rules. So once the league director signs off on it and the state director approves it there is nothing you can do. So if any team dropped and added players through the season they got away with it.

No AD of a legion team should be a league director!
 
I have followed ALB in SC since the early 80's. I've been in the hospital twice this summer and have been able to keep in touch with some coaches and go to games around the area as in years past. I hate to tell you boys, but it seems this guy has to go. I went back and looked at some of the post from the past couple of years just be sure I was remembering some things correctly (getting a little long in the tooth). Under the current administration there have been issues with:
1. Fights on the field and players not being suspended.
2. Teams playing game 4 or 5 in the playoffs with absolutely no clue who they might even play in the next round due to a lack of having a public bracket.
3. Possibilities of teams going directly to the State Tournament after receiving a bye in the first two rounds of the playoffs due to teams dropping out.
4. Teams being kicked out of the playoffs due to illegal players, yet teams being allowed to continue with illegal players
5. Coaches cussing out umpires and other coaches in front of fans, parents and small children with no penalty or even being address by anyone in the ALB administration.
6. An obvious decline in the number of teams participating each year.
7. A "Pick and Choose" approach to which rules will be followed and by whom.
8. Failure to adhere to deadlines for registrations, rosters, etc.

From my understanding Oswald's platform for being the State Director was transparency, new blood, and an up to date way of doing things. I never met the man, but it seems to me that Mr. Elbert Long did a much better job from talking to coaches over the past 3 years. Things were nowhere near this complicated under his leadership. At least I knew where I could go next week and watch a game and not have to wait until Sunday night or Monday to find out who 1st or 2nd round match-ups would be in the playoffs.
I am afraid to say it, but it appears that SCALB has become like a NASCAR team with no back-up car. The only person you are going to get to drive it is someone that is old, washed up, or wasn't worth a crap to begin with. (I'm leaning toward the latter).
 
So, how did he end up in the director chair?
Is it an elected or appointed position?
And how does one go about getting an ineffective director removed from the position?
 
You were right. Spartanburg brought back the kid that threw 115 Tuesday night to pitch again tonight, on 2 days rest. As of right now, he has already thrown 6 innings and counting. If they lose tonight, as appears likely, they will probably start the kid who threw 109 Wed. night, also on 2 days rest. The Pitch Smart Guidelines recommend 4 days rest in such cases.

I will bet they will bring him back on 2 days rest. Which is why you said earlier there has to be some sort of pitching rules. I've personally heard coaches with my own ears say they don't care about how many pitches they throw. In fact a lot of them don't even keep pitch counts so they really don't know how many they throw.
 
Fort Mill did the same thing with the Helvey kid. He was on 2 days rest of 100+ pitches on Tuesday night. You could tell it too, no velo and wild! He even complained of a dead/sore arm in the game 1 start.
 
Legree is a joke and want that great of coach but kinda got handed the state director job when long left
 
His brother who took his place as league 8 director is terrible to nothing like a bunch of nobody's running a show
 
How much you wanna bet Spartanburg does the same thing Saturday by bringing back the kid who threw 100+ Wednesday night?

Some of this nonsense, at least the problem with bringing starting pitchers back on short rest, could be avoided by making a simple change to the playoff structure. Just cut playoff series from best of 5 to best of 3. Heck, the championship series in the College of World Series is best of three. Yet we insist on best of 5 when Upper Podunk plays Lower Podunk. Ridiculous. Yeah, stupid coaches will still run up excessive pitch counts. But, this simple change would prevent some (not all) of the kids from being pitched with inadequate rest.

Fort Mill did the same thing with the Helvey kid. He was on 2 days rest of 100+ pitches on Tuesday night. You could tell it too, no velo and wild! He even complained of a dead/sore arm in he game 1 start.
 
Icrowatnight: Talked to someone with the Fort Mill team. Helvey only threw 70 pitches Tuesday vs Greenville and 35 tonight on (3 days rest Wednesday, Thursday and Friday). Instead of throwing his bullpen he started the game knowing he was only going to throw 3-4 innings.

Should be best of 3 series. How is a team supposed to get through a 5 game series with a 18 man rosters. Only MLB teams play 5 days in a row. Not even college with 30 man rosters will play 5 in a row. At the most 3. We don't even do that in the state, regional, or national tourneys.

They are supposed to come out next year with stricter pitching limits so that will help.
 
Skools, Take a look a the Pitch Smart rules. If I am reading them correctly, the rule is referring to full CALENDAR days between appearances. So, if a kid throws 61 or more pitches on Tuesday he CANNOT pitch again on Friday because he only has 2 calendar days between appearances, Wednesday and Thursday. Had the Pitch Smart rules been in effect, as I HOPE they will be next year, Helvey would not have been eligible to pitch until Saturday.

I think Legion will eventually cave and adopt pitch counts and mandatory days of rest. I have my doubts as to whether it will happen next year. I also suspect they will try to get by with a watered down version of the suggested rule.

Icrowatnight: Talked to someone with the Fort Mill team. Helvey only threw 70 pitches Tuesday vs Greenville and 35 tonight on (3 days rest Wednesday, Thursday and Friday). Instead of throwing his bullpen he started the game knowing he was only going to throw 3-4 innings.

Should be best of 3 series. How is a team supposed to get through a 5 game series with a 18 man rosters. Only MLB teams play 5 days in a row. Not even college with 30 man rosters will play 5 in a row. At the most 3. We don't even do that in the state, regional, or national tourneys.

They are supposed to come out next year with stricter pitching limits so that will help.
 
Sorry, Skools but that's a flat out lie if the coach told you that. Wednesday and Thursday is 2 days. He threw way more than that on Tuesday. Someone must have forgot to count for a couple innings. I also know for fact he was at 45 pitches when the storm hit in the 3rd inning. The Greenville coach told me was counting his pitches just to see how ridicules it would get. If that was the case the coach would have taken him out after walking 3 straight batters with 2 outs in the 3rd. There is also no doubt he was coming back in to pitch after a 30 minute delay. I watched him with my own try to stay loose in the dugout during that delay.
I agree rosters should be expanded but you can't do that to kids especially the ones who are already playing at the next level. I'm sure they will bring the Durham kid back on 2 days rest as well after throwing 100+ pitches. And Fort Mill just hired that coach to coach their high school team as well. Really hope he doesn't do this to high schoolers as he has with his legion kids this playoff.
 
Not to here to argue just relaying what I was told. The high school coach is not the head coach. If you look at MLB. If a pitcher throws Monday he will throw again on Saturday. Tuesday is day 1, Wednesday is day 2, Thursday is day 3, Friday is day 4, and Saturday is day 5. So if Helvey threw Tuesday: Wednesday is day 1, Thursday is day 2, and Friday is day 3. He was also not coming back after the rain delay I talked to his dad. They were going to have him get through that inning and that was it. If you knew the Helvey kid he is very protective about his arm and so is his brother that threw at College of Charleston.

I agree with you icrowatnight about pitch smart rules. But who is going to keep track of when players pitched? The umpires? They will not do it! Then a 19 year old is different then a 15-18 year old. Be interested to see what they do.
 
On the Spartanburg situation. What happened to the Pruitt kid that was injured while pitching for them a week or so ago? He threw the last few innings of game 1 of the DH they were playing Then sat between games 1 & 2 for about 45 mins. Then they ran him back out there (in a game that had no bearing on playoff seedings and didn't matter) to start game 2. He is in the 2nd or 3rd inn of that game and ends up doubled over on the mound after throwing a pitch and left the game in obvious discomfort. Never heard what the injury was. Couldn't understand why they would run him back out there for game 2. Not sure where he fit into their rotation, but he looked pretty good to me until that happened. Haven't seen his name since then so I am assuming he is out?
 
Again, the day you pitch is not considered a "rest" day. He was on 2 days rest. Just like the Spartanburg pitcher was on 2 days. Look it up, or someone else can agree with me. And when you think about he wasn't really resting his 2 days he played the field and had to throw a lot those days as well. So he really didn't have any days rest from throwing. I did not know the high school coach wasn't the head coach, my apologies there.
And no I don't know the kid at all, but that doesn't seem very cautious to me about his arm. 100+ on Tuesday and then 45 on yesterday and that was only because of the storm. Can promise you if his college coaches knew, they would have put a stop to it asap.
 
Skools, I have e-mailed one of the guys who wrote the Pitch Smart rules for clarification about how they count "days of rest". But, I am pretty sure that they only count the full days that involve zero pitching. Hence the emphasis on calendar days. I am not sure what MLB counts as a day of rest. It may be different than what they recommend under Pitch Smart. But, you do raise a good point about MLB. MLB uses a 5 man rotation. If you're the starting pitcher on Monday, you won't start again before Saturday. If you start on Wednesday, you won't start again until Monday. Yet, for some reason, we think it's okay to bring 15-18 year old kids back on much shorter rest? In the situations discussed above, these kids are getting around HALF of the rest MLB players would.

Dawgpoundit, it is my understanding that Pruitt developed hip or back pain in the 2d game against Inman, probably due to the down time you mentioned. I think he is okay now. Although, he got shelled in the first inning last night.

For the record, I don't want it to sound like I am just picking on Spartanburg. Steve Skinner in Inman and Tommy Ford in Union are well known for throwing kids 120-150 pitches, and bringing them back on short rest. I'll never forget a situation I saw in Union a few years ago. We're playing Union on a Friday night. We get to there starter pretty early. I look over to their bullpen and I see a kid who had just thrown 150 pitches on Wednesday warming up. Kid can barely lift his arm to throw 20-30 feet. At that point I'm thinking/hoping that he's just working out the soreness from Wednesday. But, a few minutes later Ford visits the mound and signals for the kid to come in. The kid lobbed one or two pitches towards home plate, then walks off the mound. Ford looks at him like his crazy. Still one of the smartest things I've ever seen a HS kid do.
 
CoHaze, they are just like the State Director. These guys have forgotten more about baseball than anyone else knows. 130,150 pitches and bring him back on 2 days rest for another 2 innings.Most small town papers cover ALB each week like it is the World Series because there are no high school sports going in during the summer and nothing to really write about. The coaches love to do the interviews after a win and look good for the hometown crowd. Forget the kid's arm. Win at all cos is what they thinkt. College coaches don't want to see their incoming Freshmen and returning pitchers put thru that kind of torture. No way a high school Sr. or a Redshirt college guy is ready to throw those pitches. Mark Calvi's position at SC was that he conditioned his pitchers to throw 300 pitches and would throw them 120 late in the season if needed. No way a high school coach or Legion coach is doing anything close to that in pitcher preparation. Because of the state of ALB in SC, the local posts' have to get anyone they can to coach a team. Some of these coaches are living their rec ball glory days all over again. The majority of the guys don't know anything. There are a couple of exceptions still left, but a lot of the good coaches have bailed out over the past 3 or 4 years. ALB better do something QUICK or it is going to be too late. It might be already too late unless the ALB can market itself as a good example of what it takes for a player to get thru a 56 game season. ALB is the closest they will come until they actually walk on the college field and experience the day after day grind it takes to play this game at the next level. I wonder if there had been a fight in one of the Super Regionals, if the NCAA would have ignored the rules stated and just made it a one game, winner take all, game like our State Director did in Sumter? Hmmmmm
 
Not to here to argue just relaying what I was told. The high school coach is not the head coach. If you look at MLB. If a pitcher throws Monday he will throw again on Saturday. Tuesday is day 1, Wednesday is day 2, Thursday is day 3, Friday is day 4, and Saturday is day 5. So if Helvey threw Tuesday: Wednesday is day 1, Thursday is day 2, and Friday is day 3. He was also not coming back after the rain delay I talked to his dad. They were going to have him get through that inning and that was it. If you knew the Helvey kid he is very protective about his arm and so is his brother that threw at College of Charleston.

I agree with you icrowatnight about pitch smart rules. But who is going to keep track of when players pitched? The umpires? They will not do it! Then a 19 year old is different then a 15-18 year old. Be interested to see what they do.
Where Can I Find 2nd Round Matchup`s and When They Start . Thanks for any Help !
 
Spartanburg starter throws 154 pitches tonight. Surprisingly, it was not the kid that threw 120+ on Wednesday. Of course, that kid probably threw close to 100 pitches warming up in the pen all night.

I will be curious to see the coach's "justification" in the morning paper. My guess is it will be something along the lines of "He said he was fine" and "He's not going to play after this year anyway."

I don't really know much about the Williamston team or coaching staff. But, I don't think they threw anyone over 90 pitches or so in the entire 5 game series. (Spartanburg was 115-118, 123, 140, and 154 in 4 of the 5 games. The kid that started for Williamston tonight was the same kid that started for them on Tuesday. That's a little short on rest for my tastes, but they pulled him after 89 on Tuesday and after 90 tonight.
 
Earlier in this thread the issue came up regarding what is considered a "calendar day of rest." I just got an e-mail from Dr. Glenn Fleisig with the the American Sports Medicine Institute. Dr. Fleisig and Dr. James Andrews were instrumental in developing the Pitch Smart Guidelines. Per Fleisig, game days are not included in the calendar day of rest calculations. So, if a kid starts on Monday and throws enough pitches to require 3 calendar days of rest, those days are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. He cannot pitch again until Friday.

On a different, but related, note, I went to two games earlier this week. Pitch counts in those games were 105 and around 118 in the first game, and 134 and 140 in the second game. And the beat goes on....
 
Cohaze it would be interesting to see what their recommendations are on those pitchers playing a specific position. For example one kid in our league was there number two starter and was also their catcher. Basically there are no days rest for that kid.

Here is my thing: The rule right now in legion is a kid can not throw more than 12 innings in a given 3 day period. Who is monitoring that? Who is going to monitor how many pitches a kid has thrown and how many rest days he needs.

My suggestion would be is take 15 pitches as your average inning. Kid throws 6 innings he has to sit out the 4 days. The umpires can easily record that! Maybe you make a rule were both coaches have to email in how many pitches the kids on the other team threw
 
It is not incorporated in their pitch count/rest guidelines, but they do recommend that pitchers "avoid playing catcher when not pitching." Frankly, I'd like to see the SCHSL adopt a rule saying you can't do both in the same game.

To my knowledge, nobody is monitoring anything in Legion, or HS. That will have to change.

Other states have developed systems for reporting pitch counts and rest. They're still working the bugs out, but there's no reason we can't do it here, in both HS and Legion. In this day and age where everyone has an IPhone/computer in his pocket, there is no reason we can't do this. Personally, I don't think umpires should be involved. Lots of discussion about this on the HS Baseball Web Forum.

Cohaze it would be interesting to see what their recommendations are on those pitchers playing a specific position. For example one kid in our league was there number two starter and was also their catcher. Basically there are no days rest for that kid.

Here is my thing: The rule right now in legion is a kid can not throw more than 12 innings in a given 3 day period. Who is monitoring that? Who is going to monitor how many pitches a kid has thrown and how many rest days he needs.

My suggestion would be is take 15 pitches as your average inning. Kid throws 6 innings he has to sit out the 4 days. The umpires can easily record that! Maybe you make a rule were both coaches have to email in how many pitches the kids on the other team threw
 
In high school it will really not be an issue as most coaches will follow the rules and people will keep up with what's going on in other programs. The HSL will also have punishment for breaking the rule. I seriously doubt legion will ever do this, with 18 man rosters and 9 inning games teams will be folding and forfieghting games a bunch. The keeping up with the rule and enforcing it is a whole separate issue with the legion also!
 
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