Just saw the schedule for the State Tournament on SCMAT. I don't think it's very fan friendly. Any thoughts?
State Schedule in Anderson
- Thread starter rhino_wrestling_club_sc
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I believe it is extremely fan friendly.
The biggest complaints in previous years was the crowd on Saturday morning. Friday's crowd issues were solved once we split the 3 divisions into a staggered start time.
Saturday morning was the problem because everyone was there. You have the semis being wrestled within one round of the consis so every wrestler/coach/parent will be there. This caused the crowding issues.
With the semis being wrestled on Friday night this will fix that problem. Now the people who want to watch those matches will be there. If they don't, then they won't. If you are a wrestler/coach/parent that loses first round and don't want to watch the semis you can leave. This will keep the crowd in check for the semis.
The biggest complaints in previous years was the crowd on Saturday morning. Friday's crowd issues were solved once we split the 3 divisions into a staggered start time.
Saturday morning was the problem because everyone was there. You have the semis being wrestled within one round of the consis so every wrestler/coach/parent will be there. This caused the crowding issues.
With the semis being wrestled on Friday night this will fix that problem. Now the people who want to watch those matches will be there. If they don't, then they won't. If you are a wrestler/coach/parent that loses first round and don't want to watch the semis you can leave. This will keep the crowd in check for the semis.
People who work will have trouble making it in time for a 12:30 start on Friday afternoon. Those who may miss most of the Friday action may not even bother coming at all on Saturday. Making it tough for people to make it in time isn't fan friendly.
The issue with the crowd being too big is just that the venue is not good at all for a wrestling tournament.
The issue with the crowd being too big is just that the venue is not good at all for a wrestling tournament.
Haven't seen it but don't like the idea of the semis on Friday night, nor the such an early start on Friday.
Biggest complaint isn't overcrowding, it's the "arena" (which is much more suited to host amateur pro wrestling events and trade shows) All these scheduling issues are a non-starter if the root issue of an absolutely atrocious venue are addressed. Plain and simple.
Biggest complaint isn't overcrowding, it's the "arena" (which is much more suited to host amateur pro wrestling events and trade shows) All these scheduling issues are a non-starter if the root issue of an absolutely atrocious venue are addressed. Plain and simple.
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So the other states that have their state tournaments go on for 3 days (Thursday-Saturday) can get off work but South Carolina can't?
The venue is not changing any time soon. It is the best option for the current price. We all would like something bigger but unless someone can pony up about $20,000 it isn't changing.
The venue is not changing any time soon. It is the best option for the current price. We all would like something bigger but unless someone can pony up about $20,000 it isn't changing.
I'm going mostly off how this affects me as I'm sure I'm not the only one who will be having trouble making it in time for the Friday wrestling as opposed to previous years. It was easier for me in the past to get down there after work, only missing maybe one classification. This year it will be different for my wife and I- we're hoping to get there by the start of the semi's. I'll have wrestlers from my club that I expect to qualify in all three classifications that I would like to be there for- and I am one of those people who won't be able to take off work on Friday. Most casual fans who aren't as diehard or as involved as myself probably won't take off work. Those states with three day tourneys- PIAA Thurs-Sat, and NJ Fri-Sun as examples have a huge fan base and are held in venues suited to host a wrestling tournament.
Maybe I'm wrong- it won't be the first time. I'll be interested to see the attendance numbers this year. Most of the people I talked to already- fans like me, people who don't follow the sport at all, and a couple coaches, aren't too crazy about it.
Maybe I'm wrong- it won't be the first time. I'll be interested to see the attendance numbers this year. Most of the people I talked to already- fans like me, people who don't follow the sport at all, and a couple coaches, aren't too crazy about it.
Biggest problem is the venue- a horrible place to host the tourney.
Here's the schedule as posted on SCMAT:
Schedule: Friday, 12:30 pm 1A-2A start wrestling on 6 mats
1:30 pm 3A start wrestling on 6 mats
2:45 pm 4A start wrestling on 6 mats
Semi-Finals 6:30 pm (All Classifications) on 2 mats per classification
Saturday:
Weigh-ins: 8:00 am
First round Cons. 9am (All Classifications) on 2 mats per classification
2nd Round Cons. 10:30 am (All Classifications) on 2 mats per classification *or immediately after previous round
3 and 4th Place 12:00 pm (All Classifications) on 2 mats per classification *or immediately after previous round
Finals to start at 3:00pm (All Classifications) on 1 mat per classification
1. Number one concern I have is..why or will finalists have to weigh in at 8:00 AM sat. morning. Should be a later weigh in allowed for them
2. Event is not fan friendly. Not because of schedule ( I actually like the early start as it is a step in the right direction of moving toward a larger tournament with at least 12-16, if not more wrestlers in the event). The tournament needs to begin at noon on Friday. It is not FF because of the facility. I wonder how much Carolina stadium costs to host football state championships? I would think it a ridiculously high rate, if they are charged at all. I really don't know, and am curious. There are ways to make the $ to pay for the state tournament. Charge a tax on every Inv. tournament hosted throughout the year. Ten percent on every event will get ya the $ needed to cover cost. Programs have to be willing to do this. Problem is gonna be where school A runs a top notch event that costs an arm and a leg, while Bubba runs a side show and gains only $100 for the cause. Simply put, it could turn into the 90/10 scenario....10 percent of the people/programs doing 90 percent of the work. But, my point is, it can be done. Let a group of sharp coaches get together, and along with their contacts you will have enough $ to run the show. Start now, and we could have $50,000 for the state tournament nest season, although until it gets outta the current facility, I hesitate to bankroll that. However; the HSL should step up it's game a little and be part of the solution as well.
3.Idea...Run a larger tournament and start the vent at regional locations earlier in the week. I think NJ does something like this..maybe not. But there are a few states who do.
2. Event is not fan friendly. Not because of schedule ( I actually like the early start as it is a step in the right direction of moving toward a larger tournament with at least 12-16, if not more wrestlers in the event). The tournament needs to begin at noon on Friday. It is not FF because of the facility. I wonder how much Carolina stadium costs to host football state championships? I would think it a ridiculously high rate, if they are charged at all. I really don't know, and am curious. There are ways to make the $ to pay for the state tournament. Charge a tax on every Inv. tournament hosted throughout the year. Ten percent on every event will get ya the $ needed to cover cost. Programs have to be willing to do this. Problem is gonna be where school A runs a top notch event that costs an arm and a leg, while Bubba runs a side show and gains only $100 for the cause. Simply put, it could turn into the 90/10 scenario....10 percent of the people/programs doing 90 percent of the work. But, my point is, it can be done. Let a group of sharp coaches get together, and along with their contacts you will have enough $ to run the show. Start now, and we could have $50,000 for the state tournament nest season, although until it gets outta the current facility, I hesitate to bankroll that. However; the HSL should step up it's game a little and be part of the solution as well.
3.Idea...Run a larger tournament and start the vent at regional locations earlier in the week. I think NJ does something like this..maybe not. But there are a few states who do.
Wouldn't quite compare the fan bases, or culture relevance of wrestling, of PA, OH, and NJ to what we find here in South Carolina. Also, those state tournaments are EVENTS and destinations for families of current and past wrestlers to attend. As dead of a city as Atlantic City is, I know numerous wrestling families and former teammates that head there and Hershey every March. Let's be fair Anderson, for all it's recent growth and prosperity, isn't the most attractive city for marginal fans to attend.
I still don't see how the issue of athlete safety (no showers, come on) is still something the HSL refuses to address. This venue is the equivalent to a $3.99 truckstop steak.
I still don't see how the issue of athlete safety (no showers, come on) is still something the HSL refuses to address. This venue is the equivalent to a $3.99 truckstop steak.
The schedule was sent out to all of the coaches in November in hopes that they would get the information out to parents so that they all could request a day off work months in advance rather than a couple weeks. I am pretty sure that I have also seen the information on SCMAT since then as well, so the information has been out for months.
While the Anderson Civic Center (ACC) may not be the largest venue in the state, it is the only one that is managed by a person that loves wrestling and has been involved in wrestling for 30 years or so. From the SCHSL standpoint, the ACC is easy because they dont have to do any of the legwork, and it is the cheapest venue to hold the event. We are aware that the Bon securs center, Florence Civic center, Colonial Life center, and williams brice are all very expensive and are used in other sports, but those venues probably cut deals because they can advertise well due to large numbers of fans that are coming. 7-9 years ago, the SC wrestling coaches association priced other venues around the state in order to get the individual state tournaments all together and the cheapest one was $17,000, which would be much more expensive today. Our fan number is about 1800 for both days of the tournament. No way that we get a larger venue with that amount of revenue in.
The other option that was kicked around was to move each classification to individual high schools and split them up. I dont think any wrestling person in the state wants that. The individual state tournament should be an event for the kids. It shouldnt feel like just another high school tournament. The thoughts were that the Semi Finals and the Finals were the sessions that fans, wrestlers, and other coaches wanted to see. We altered the schedule to alleviate the crowd issue given the framework that we had to work with.
As the number of classifications change, then there will be more changes in the future. The state tournament this year will still be as great of an event as it always is.
While the Anderson Civic Center (ACC) may not be the largest venue in the state, it is the only one that is managed by a person that loves wrestling and has been involved in wrestling for 30 years or so. From the SCHSL standpoint, the ACC is easy because they dont have to do any of the legwork, and it is the cheapest venue to hold the event. We are aware that the Bon securs center, Florence Civic center, Colonial Life center, and williams brice are all very expensive and are used in other sports, but those venues probably cut deals because they can advertise well due to large numbers of fans that are coming. 7-9 years ago, the SC wrestling coaches association priced other venues around the state in order to get the individual state tournaments all together and the cheapest one was $17,000, which would be much more expensive today. Our fan number is about 1800 for both days of the tournament. No way that we get a larger venue with that amount of revenue in.
The other option that was kicked around was to move each classification to individual high schools and split them up. I dont think any wrestling person in the state wants that. The individual state tournament should be an event for the kids. It shouldnt feel like just another high school tournament. The thoughts were that the Semi Finals and the Finals were the sessions that fans, wrestlers, and other coaches wanted to see. We altered the schedule to alleviate the crowd issue given the framework that we had to work with.
As the number of classifications change, then there will be more changes in the future. The state tournament this year will still be as great of an event as it always is.
The regional location in the early rounds would allow those people with work related restrictions, etc..to actually get to see their kid wrestle. They would not have to take on the cost of hotel, travel, etc.. not even knowing if little Jimmy will be murdered by the likes of ParTerre and TJ Dudley in the first two rounds. They get to see their boy wrestle without the expense. If Jimmy makes it to state then they can make arrangements. It's reward without risk where the regional is concerned.
Don't matter about what state has the larger fan base.
Just a thought.....but I still contend that if this does not become of greater concern to our governing body, we will continue to "be paid minimum wage"
JYMF,
I have brought up the idea of the schsl league "charging" a "sanctioning" fee for all invitationals held during the season many times. Pretty simple, each tournament must register with the HSL and send in their $100 in order for the tournament to be sanctioned. The $$$ raised would then go to a venue for the state tournament. What is your guess as to the amount of tournaments held in the state during the season? If it is 50 tourneys, that raises $5000 towards the venue. Plus I am sure the number is higher than 50.
Not enough $$$ says TRDog. The next will take a little work by the hsl, but put together a program for the event. A real program, not just printed brackets. Sell ads in the program. Raise another 5 to 10 grand on ads. Now, you have the $$$ for the venue and don't have to rely on attendance.
But, the HSL will have to buy in and do some work for the tourney. As a wrestling community we must get together and demand they stop taking the easy way out, the path of least resistance.
I will apply for the job posted at the HSL. Pretty sure I am qualified, but I don't think they will look at me. Couple things working against me, the worst of which is they already know my name down there for some reason.
TBowe
I have brought up the idea of the schsl league "charging" a "sanctioning" fee for all invitationals held during the season many times. Pretty simple, each tournament must register with the HSL and send in their $100 in order for the tournament to be sanctioned. The $$$ raised would then go to a venue for the state tournament. What is your guess as to the amount of tournaments held in the state during the season? If it is 50 tourneys, that raises $5000 towards the venue. Plus I am sure the number is higher than 50.
Not enough $$$ says TRDog. The next will take a little work by the hsl, but put together a program for the event. A real program, not just printed brackets. Sell ads in the program. Raise another 5 to 10 grand on ads. Now, you have the $$$ for the venue and don't have to rely on attendance.
But, the HSL will have to buy in and do some work for the tourney. As a wrestling community we must get together and demand they stop taking the easy way out, the path of least resistance.
I will apply for the job posted at the HSL. Pretty sure I am qualified, but I don't think they will look at me. Couple things working against me, the worst of which is they already know my name down there for some reason.
TBowe
JYMF,
I have brought up the idea of the schsl league "charging" a "sanctioning" fee for all invitationals held during the season many times. Pretty simple, each tournament must register with the HSL and send in their $100 in order for the tournament to be sanctioned. The $$$ raised would then go to a venue for the state tournament. What is your guess as to the amount of tournaments held in the state during the season? If it is 50 tourneys, that raises $5000 towards the venue. Plus I am sure the number is higher than 50.
Not enough $$$ says TRDog. The next will take a little work by the hsl, but put together a program for the event. A real program, not just printed brackets. Sell ads in the program. Raise another 5 to 10 grand on ads. Now, you have the $$$ for the venue and don't have to rely on attendance.
But, the HSL will have to buy in and do some work for the tourney. As a wrestling community we must get together and demand they stop taking the easy way out, the path of least resistance.
I will apply for the job posted at the HSL. Pretty sure I am qualified, but I don't think they will look at me. Couple things working against me, the worst of which is they already know my name down there for some reason.
TBowe
Amen Brother Bowe! preachin
The ACC is, by far, best place for the $$. Coming together, I think, is the most difficult task. Too many people "know" how to do it, not enough willing to back it up
According to the OHSAA website the "Total All Session Attendance" for last year's state finals in Columbus was 54,214.
Schools need to start hiring wrestling people as coaches. Not hiring Billy Bob to make sure we have a "good" offensive/defensive line coach, and by the way will also need to "coach" the wrestling team.
Take a look at many of the top level programs...they are ran by people with extensive wrestling backgrounds....successful college and high school wrestlers, etc....
There are certainly some strong programs being led by guys without the background but get it done through hard work and a willingness to learn and provide opportunity for kids.
Point is....the wrestling program has to be the priority, not just "part of the baggage" that comes with getting the teaching job.
More programs that are successful will lead to greater numbers in the seats. HSL can certainly help with this. Diluting the competitive opportunities, the state tournament. etc.. by creating five divisions is a step in the wrong direction.
Take a look at many of the top level programs...they are ran by people with extensive wrestling backgrounds....successful college and high school wrestlers, etc....
There are certainly some strong programs being led by guys without the background but get it done through hard work and a willingness to learn and provide opportunity for kids.
Point is....the wrestling program has to be the priority, not just "part of the baggage" that comes with getting the teaching job.
More programs that are successful will lead to greater numbers in the seats. HSL can certainly help with this. Diluting the competitive opportunities, the state tournament. etc.. by creating five divisions is a step in the wrong direction.
I concur but would add to it that we as coaches / teachers / educators need to be pushing our athletes in the direction of being teachers / coaches. Getting them into teacher ed programs in college and then getting them in middle / high schools would go a long way to helping this as well. How many of our seniors go on to major in education in college? (not that you have to teach to coach but it certainly helps).
Keep in mind also there are quality young coaches who wrestled in college out there who become teachers, coach for maybe a couple years then give it up for various reasons.
Once you get parents involved...it's over. But you need to get them to buy in. At a relatively young age. Not like 5 or 6 but 4th and 5th grade. Then we need more media and more media and lastly...MORE media. One parent came on here ranting about how coaches do not post results or notify the local media of them (results) for one reason or another. That is just more of the actions(not reporting) that hold the sport back. I like how some coaches (Kos & Mark) have had dual matches during school time as fundraiser for toys for tots and whatnot.
1. The fact that students in Greenville county have to pay $5 to watch their friends compete is just flat wrong.
B. Not having a legitimate middle school program (statewide for sure) the way Spartanburg county has always been a head scratcher.
1. The fact that students in Greenville county have to pay $5 to watch their friends compete is just flat wrong.
B. Not having a legitimate middle school program (statewide for sure) the way Spartanburg county has always been a head scratcher.
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@countykid ...How is it "once you get parents involved...it's over." Curious as to what that statement truly means?!?!?!?
So many comments I want to make, I will hold my tongue.
So many comments I want to make, I will hold my tongue.
@ParTerre57 Maybe it was a typo but, I was saying that the lack of reporting and coverage IS a negative.
I see how you may have read my original post. I reworded it.
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@scwrestlingdad I meant "it's over" in a good way... Especially moms. Mom's are usually great cheerleaders. Especially once they learn and start to see all the benefits our great sport has to offer their cubs.
Why bite your tongue? Comment away, it's what a message board is for. Discuss, disagree, agree, argue someone's point or comment. Argue mine if you like. You won't hurt my feelings. I will defend and back up my comments to the best of my knowledge.
Get what you're saying Buckeye, but pushing students into education is not as easy as it sounds. Generally our country/society/culture is becoming more educated and qualified for careers that require specialized training and skills. So for all of the possibilities and career choices out there, why would a kid choose education over another career that will pay two to ten times as much. On average a new teacher in the field lasts about 3 years. Young coaches go in, go hard core for a few years and then life and reality hits with marriage, kids, bills, mortgage, etc..
The ones who stay are the ones who absolutely love the sport and actually do want to make a life and career out of it. Think about it....right now a teacher who has spent 10 years in th classroom is makin about $50,000. Most other jobs that require a BA degree are ENTERING at least that level. At year 20, Mr. Teach is makin about $60,000. Other careers way over triple figures.
Obviously advanced degrees, national Board certification,and other stipends can boost the amount but generally it is way behind other careers.
So, until education begins to pay out more, there will be a limited supply of highly qualified coaches. UNLESS you go the football route, become a head coach and make triple figures in some places. This again, an area that I absolutely do not understand as those supplements are budgeted tax payer dollars. Track coach works with 120 kids, one asst coach, and makes $1200. FB coach works with 120 kids, ten coaches, often teaches part time and makes $18-$20,000.
So as "Mr. Wonderful" on Shark Tank says...."It's always about the money"