The 70 mph myth

[NA_JACKET]

I see the NCAA/ESPN have jacked their speed numbers through the roof again. This has always been a sore subject for me. For starters I have watched these pitchers all year not approach the numbers that are popping up on the screen in the college world series. My main reason for pointing this out is that some young pitcher doesn't give up on a dream because it looks like 70 is impossible for her. 70 is a unrealistic number for 97 percent of pitchers. What happens when these speeds get jacked up is some new college coaches will be looking for this speed. The ones that have been around awhile wont have a problem. Years ago when my daughter was coming through 65 was the magic number. Those that know me understood I had a radar gun everywhere I went. HS,College and travel ball. I wanted to know where our pitchers stood in relation to college ball. When 65 was the magic number very few college pitchers were throwing 62-63. The best pitcher around was Cat Osterman and nobody could hit her at 62. In Florida's first championship Hannah Rogers was a 63 mph pitcher. If you know a pitcher don't let them get hung up on speed. There will be a time a coach asks for a number and you will need to hit it. If you can't you have no choice but to move on to another school. Just for the record Jackie Traina at Alabama was the only pitcher I ever clocked at 70 or over and that was before she had a injury. I know there are a few others that can hit this speed if there was no concern for movement. Regardless of how hard you throw you better move it. I have seen D1 pitchers at smaller schools in the high 50s so no pitcher should give up a dream based on these inflated speeds from the College World Series. Back to my daughter for a second she did hit the magic number she needed to but it took new pitching coaches and $$ to get her there.

 

[sdadcoot]

NAJacket, I agree with you 100%. I watched the LL World Series on ESPN and saw 12U clocked at 84. The balls had an arch and they were most likely throwing in the 40's..I saw Jackie Traina at the SEC tournament in Columbia and you are right. I saw Monica Abbott at Coastal Carolina and she is another that can reach the 70 mph but as you say there are very few that can physically capable of throwing a softball 70 mph.
I,too, carry my radar with me to most of the games I attend and very few are in the 60's. I go to a lot of the showcase tournaments over the years and the majority are in the mid 50's. There are some that can throw in the 60's but they are few and far between. There was a website posting speeds of pitchers attending a clinic I believe was held at a Southeastern Conf. school and there was over probably 60 or 70 college prospects and very few were in the low 60's.
As you said, during the year I have seen many games where these same pitchers were in the low to mid 60"s and now in the post season they are all bumping 70 on most of their pitchs. Don't know what the reason for ESPN doing that.

 

[BS100]

Calculation of pitching speeds is a scientific event.

Today's technology may be able to pinpoint the speed of the ball the instant it leaves a pitchers hand.

I doubt the NCAA World Series institution is inflating pitching speeds.

They may have better technology than a hand held device.

Pitching speeds are over rated. A flat 70 mph ball is a hitters dream. That is why every pitcher in the highest softball level, focus on spin. Spin and move the ball is where it is at these days.

There are more than a few SC players who can throw a flat 70 ball. Jury, Hoover, come to mind. Yet they are taught to spin. For that is what wins.

 

[sdadcoot]

Calculation of pitching speeds is a scientific event.

Today's technology may be able to pinpoint the speed of the ball the instant it leaves a pitchers hand.

I doubt the NCAA World Series institution is inflating pitching speeds.

They may have better technology than a hand held device.

Pitching speeds are over rated. A flat 70 mph ball is a hitters dream. That is why every pitcher in the highest softball level, focus on spin. Spin and move the ball is where it is at these days.

There are more than a few SC players who can throw a flat 70 ball. Jury, Hoover, come to mind. Yet they are taught to spin. For that is what wins.

You made my point though you say there are more than a few, you only named two out of thousands of SC pitchers. Maybe Maddie Moss is another that you failed to mention. Three or ten would be considered a few IMO. Carly Hoover and Leslie Jury are exceptionally strong physical athletes and are capable of reaching the higher speeds.
I was watching Georgia/Auburn and Chelsea Wilkinson was clocked at 72 mph. I've watched her for her college career and have never seen that speed ever recorded before yesterday. More of a low to mid 60's pitcher.

 

[BS100]

Maddie Moss is a terrific pitcher. What she has done this year for TN softball is off the charts. As a freshman. Known the family for a long time. Have nothing but the highest praise for this family.

We are talking about the absolute highest levels of the national softball circuit. To be great is the hardest thing to do.

I congratulate this family. Spin is what wins. Radar guns, though helpful, are way, way overrated.

 

[NA_JACKET]

You made my point though you say there are more than a few, you only named two out of thousands of SC pitchers. Maybe Maddie Moss is another that you failed to mention. Three or ten would be considered a few IMO. Carly Hoover and Leslie Jury are exceptionally strong physical athletes and are capable of reaching the higher speeds.
I was watching Georgia/Auburn and Chelsea Wilkinson was clocked at 72 mph. I've watched her for her college career and have never seen that speed ever recorded before yesterday. More of a low to mid 60's pitcher.

Chelsea is a awesome person and pitcher. 70 mph she is not nor or any of the others. Hoover would be the most legit and still she normally around 68. Moss throws it well and I am sure she would've loved throwing on these bumped up guns.

 

[NA_JACKET]

Calculation of pitching speeds is a scientific event.
Today's technology may be able to pinpoint the speed of the ball the instant it leaves a pitchers hand.

Very funny. Yesterdays technology did this so you may want to educate yourself on these systems. Since I know this isn't your area I will leave it alone. I will point out when this was a problem before at the WCWS the coach at Missouri (Ehren Earleywine) stated the speeds Chelsea Thomas as shown in the stadium as 65. What he didn't know was ESPN was showing them all night at 70 and above. SO to your point they wouldn't bump speeds.

 

[BS100]

It is just technology my friend. I am an engineer. Have spent my life giving to superiors the answers they want and still be technically accurate.

Why cannot you accept that today's technology can get a softball directly out of the hand at 70 mph, while your hand held gun measures 65???

 

[NA_JACKET]

It is just technology my friend. I am an engineer. Have spent my life giving to superiors the answers they want and still be technically accurate.

Why cannot you accept that today's technology can get a softball directly out of the hand at 70 mph, while your hand held gun measures 65???

What I tried to tell you already is that technology has been around for years. The speed has been taken off the hand! For your superiors sake I hope you don't bet your job on radar systems. Maybe the best way I can explain it to you is there have been no advancements in radar systems recently to turn 66 mph pitchers into 70. And another radar gun fact. The cheap ones are great for measuring car speeds but they suck at pitching speeds off the hand.

 

[BS100]

My gosh jacket. Take the speed the instant it leaves the hand. That is the highest speed. A hand held radar unit does not do that.

Watch when the speeds are posted during the game. They are almost posted before the pitch hits the catchers mit.

So give in and realize the facts I am presenting are truly facts. The radar gun is the most time proven way to measure pitching speeds. But in this thechnogical age, the modern way may be more accurate.

I get your point. Just don't call the modern way a FARSE. That is my point.

Again folks who want to knock down, rather than prop up.

 

[damendez]

I should preface that i do not claim to be a radar gun expert...Only a handful of pitchers are able to pop 70mph on the gun? Come on now. You should know that adrenaline (not an adrenaline expert either) is a funny thing. Lets not forget that these players are on the biggest stage for women's softball, so the adrenaline has got to be pumping. I think its a safe bet that some of these pitchers who throw mid to upper 60s can hit 70 MPH from time to time. Just my non radar expert opinion on the subject. A pitcher who throws a few pitches in a game that hit 70 mph is not the same as someone who throws 70 mph.

 

[damendez]

One more thing...is it not possible that some of these speeds are the bat swings?

 

[NA_JACKET]

Mr radar man quality hand held radar units have gotten speed off the hand for years. Yes the do and for once you are right that is the highest speed. If they didn't do that they aren't worth having. Advanced guns also measure speed at the plate. I had a unit capable of that and many other features. If you want to continue this line tell me what super radar you think is being used. When you answer that tell me who makes what you think is quality and maybe I can give you a few nuggets of info on them. In the meantime keep believing everything you see on those speeds.

 

[NA_JACKET]

Tony pitchers being jacked picking up a few mph is a point. I follow this series every year and the last two the 5mph bump was not in place. Normally 2 mph is the norm when they reach back for extra. My daughters done. No more worry for her. My reason for posting in the first place was so somebody else doesn't get discouraged over it. Me and my daughter laugh now but it wasn't funny when her recruiting was going on.

 

[damendez]

I have only seen 2 pitchers who consistently hit 70 during the course of an entire game. That would be freak Abbott and freak Ricketts. I know the Japanese had a few, and i think that's because they dissect the our pitching mechanics like our kids dissect pigs in middle school. But i'm talking about freaks of nature who ping 70+ the whole game. I'm glad you brought up Osterman. Kristen Butler from the Chicago Bandits told me Cat was the toughest pitcher she had ever faced. Butler faced a lot of greats, but the 62-63 mph rock spinner was the best

 

[NA_JACKET]

Rickets, Traina and Abbout all freaks of nature. Hoover is too. I know her personally and they have her speed turned back in favor of movement. No doubt in my mind if Hoover wanted to throw only heat she would be 73 or better. Problem with that is she would still get hit and probably hit more often.

 

[BS100]

Jury hit 70 all day long. However it was measured. In hindsight, she went to a school who had the best pitcher in the nation ... could not get out. AL back then was dominate.

The game today Is about spin. All the the great SC pitchers can hit a flat 70 if that is the goal.

It simply is not. A mean spin at 65 is what they are striving for.

 

[NA_JACKET]

A mean spin at 65 is what they are striving for.

If they hit 60 plus with great movement they will have great success. 65 with great movement they will be a dominant force in the college game.

 

[BS100]

One more thing...is it not possible that some of these speeds are the bat swings?

I am waiting for today's technology to post bat speed. It is coming ... Just not today ... And will be a totally different discussion, and a great way to look at offensive softball players.

With bats, players grow and choose. While I thought earlier a 33 drop 9 was preferred in college. I was way wrong. Some of the bigger hitters are going with 34 drop 8. Back away from the plate, find extension. Go figure. I am just a dumb dad. And let the professionals, and players decide the future.

These adult players are so much smarter than I. If pitching speeds get the best of them, they drop down their bats. It has been ingrained in them for a long while, for they have carried 2 bats in their bag just for this purpose since youth. Change your equipment for the circumstance.

That being said. Upper level college programs DO measure bat speed. What is on TV can be more like a circus event.

 

[Caligirl10]

I can't help myself..I have to join in on this one. In my experience, I have heard that the televised games do let the guns get a little hot at times, Not all the time. The coach's also have their guns on during the games, so both teams know the truth about every pitcher that tossed a pitch. Guys, every pitch is 'spun' if it is not a knuckle ball. Yes, some have tighter spin than others. It's all about the location location location. Yes, you can throw a "flat" fastball riding in on the hands and be successful, miss your location and kiss it goodbye. I really liked what one poster said about "hitting a top speed" vs "throwing a top speed". It's true, not every pitch will be at the same speed...at least you hope not. So lets break this down for a second ...Pitcher, at point of release is at end of circle..which is 8ft I believe...that puts her at 35ft throwing a 68mph pitch..most likely that pitch isn't going to "spin" tighly, but can it still move HECK YA!!! Pull the speed down to 63mph you will get tighter spin. It's all in what your role is. No coach wants a staff of pitchers that are all the same. Different looks can cause a nightmare for hitters. But yes Jacket, some young athletes get caught up in speed and some don't. That is where the awesome TB coaches and great parent support come in to help guide the young athlete in the right direction...again we cant and wont all be a flame throwing but there is a place for every single one of us!!! PS I am a sucker for a 67+ fastball. I am who I am . Keep posting guys..Keep loving our sport and all who play it

 

[NA_JACKET]

I can't help myself..I have to join in on this one. In my experience, I have heard that the televised games do let the guns get a little hot at times, Not all the time. The coach's also have their guns on during the games, so both teams know the truth about every pitcher that tossed a pitch. Guys, every pitch is 'spun' if it is not a knuckle ball. Yes, some have tighter spin than others. It's all about the location location location. Yes, you can throw a "flat" fastball riding in on the hands and be successful, miss your location and kiss it goodbye. I really liked what one poster said about "hitting a top speed" vs "throwing a top speed". It's true, not every pitch will be at the same speed...at least you hope not. So lets break this down for a second ...Pitcher, at point of release is at end of circle..which is 8ft I believe...that puts her at 35ft throwing a 68mph pitch..most likely that pitch isn't going to "spin" tighly, but can it still move HECK YA!!! Pull the speed down to 63mph you will get tighter spin. It's all in what your role is. No coach wants a staff of pitchers that are all the same. Different looks can cause a nightmare for hitters. But yes Jacket, some young athletes get caught up in speed and some don't. That is where the awesome TB coaches and great parent support come in to help guide the young athlete in the right direction...again we cant and wont all be a flame throwing but there is a place for every single one of us!!! PS I am a sucker for a 67+ fastball. I am who I am . Keep posting guys..Keep loving our sport and all who play it

I have enjoyed watching yours spin it and throw some heat! There has been nothing more discouraging than a college coach asking for 65 when there own kids don't throw it. I fear that standard of just a few years ago inflates to 68 or better and good pitchers get overlooked over it.

Just for a little fun I linked stuff about 3 different pitchers I loved to watch. The pitchers would all be the Greg Maddox type pitchers. Some would call them crafty because they are far from flame throwers.The first being my all time favorite couldn't throw over 56 if she tried. She could hit spots the size of a pea in every zone. The second is more about incredible movement and throwing over 57 didn't happen much and made bigger schools look silly. She helped put Upstate on the map. The third much like the first could move it in all zones and speed topping around 58. Two of the 3 are in the 5-5 to 5-6 range. I love the fireballers too and always appreciated seeing Moss, Jury and Hoover pitch.

http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticl...=C&DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=174732&Q_SEASON=2003

http://www.upstatespartans.com/sports/w-softbl/2010-11/bios/childers_morgan_ztz2?view=bio

http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209635393

 

[Caligirl10]

I have heard of these three but never got to watch them pitch . Asking for 68 is very naïve. I couldn't imagine putting that on a high schooler; whom typically doesn't have a college level strength and condition program, much less any consistent strength and conditioning program. I can only speak from my experience and I believe we ask for 60. Now, I have heard of the TB coaches getting crazy and thinking 14U needs to throw 65. Sometimes, I wonder....but try not to, too far from my own path. To each it's own and may we always support other views in way of politeness .

 

[Caligirl10]

oh and Jimmy, thank you for complimenting my daughter. and If you can't see it all over her face while on the mound, she is having a blast!!

 

[NA_JACKET]

oh and Jimmy, thank you for complimenting my daughter. and If you can't see it all over her face while on the mound, she is having a blast!!

That is not unusual and why she always has respect from parents, coaches and teammates! Always loved your girls attitude!

 

[sdadcoot]

NA JACKET, I remember Kristen Schmidt when LSU was playing in the WCWS and she had the batters so frustrated with her movement and her ability to locate her pitchs. If I recall correctly, they were playing UCLA. UCLA won but it took three games to do it. I met coach Yvette Gerard (LSU Head Coach at the time) at a showcase and we talked about Schmidt's performance in the WCWS and she told me she was one of the most effective pitchers she had ever coached. At the time, she was looking at a pitcher whose speed was 57-59 mph.