ADVERTISEMENT

Discussion: Should an 0-10 team be allowed to keep its coach?

S

ShivaBlast

Rookie
Nov 10, 2014
65
2
8
This board is, well, dying it seems. Several of you are mentioning the complaints and are stating your disdain for what used to be a lively and active discussion forum. I figured maybe I would try to spice things up and, the best way I know how, is to ask questions that might make people think. Or fight. Or, if nothing else, give the clown another forum to spout incomprehensible one-liners at.

So, my question: SHOULD AN 0-10 TEAM BE ALLOWED TO KEEP ITS COACH?

Mind you, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am admittedly a young coach always looking for my next opportunity so, this time of year, I start looking around for the bottom-dwellers, the teams that might be looking to throw some new blood into the system, and that starts with the 0-fers.

As mind-boggling as it is, all the factors that have to slide into place, all the dominoes that have to fall at the exact right time, it seems crazy to think that ANY team can go undefeated. In a sport with an oblong ball that can bounce any which way, it seems unlikely that it can or even will bounce your way all the time. But we understand that the bounce of the ball is mostly luck, and the skill it takes to go undefeated takes a LOT more than just luck. That said, I find it just as unlikely that a team can't get even ONE ball to bounce its way. What stars must align? What horrific turns of fate have to happen for you to get defeated EVERY time? You can't luck-up and beat a mediocre team at your home on one of their "off" nights?

The truth is that the only reasonable explanation for an 0-10 season (or at least the only one that can resonate at least some truth in all sports) is that the little things that make a good team "good" are the same things that get ignored in the winless scenarios. In researching this, I came across three such teams in three different scenarios. Lakewood (Sumter), St. James (Horry), and Lower Richland (Richland) High Schools each posted the infamous mark of 0-10 this season. Each school, however, seems to have reached that valley in a different way.

Lower Richland is on year-one of their new coach. Coach Daryl Page spent several of the last few years trying to do SOMETHING with the Diamond Hornets, to no avail. Coach Page is a highly respected coach and a good football mind, and he had to have felt some frustration leaving that program without having turned it around. His replacement (whose name escapes me, forgive me) has had one year in the saddle to fix something that Page couldn't do in four. For him, though 0-10 is far from acceptable, it is at least something that is understandable. But what are the expectations moving forward? Will Lower Richland be satisfied with a 1-9 season next year, just to show growth?

St. James is a different monster altogether; they replaced their head coach in 2014 with Coach Robby Brown, an interim that continued on to take the job full-time. Last year, Maxpreps posted a respectable 7-3 turnaround for the Sharks. This year, 0-10. Lakewood High School hired Coach Brian Jackson as the head coach in 2015; in two years he has gone 1-9 and 0-10, respectively. In the case of St. James, a respected coach earned the job as an interim, put together a respectable 2015, and then the bottom inexplicably fell out. For Lakewood, two years has produced one victory and almost zero results.

I'm not picking on these schools or their coaches; they are simply a microcosm of programs in disrepair. They are each in 4A, each winless. From A through AAAAA ball, there are 10 total schools claiming winless resumes. For each of those schools (and, frankly, the innumerable 1-win teams that are nearly just as fruitless), how do you manage to be THAT bad? More importantly, how do you justify maintaining a coach who would allow a program to get that bad? In what situations do you justify keeping a coach, and it what alternatives do you fire that coach?

Looking for some real, intelligent, focused debate here. Feel free to agree or disagree with me here, but I ask no personal shots or "trolling." Let's try and spark some interest on this forum again, eh?
 
I know teams go through rebuilding years but if you do not make it to the playoffs and at least a 2nd or 3rd place in your region year in and year out I do not think you are the right person for that job. I know plenty of places that were 1-9, 2-8, 3-7 and they still have a job which I think is ridiculous. Teams like you mentioned and then schools that hired new coaches this year that seem to be at places just collecting checks and not getting any better. I just think there need to be some type of standard the coach must uphold year in and year out. Anything less than a 6-4 mark is not acceptable in my opinion. I also think the head coach should be surrounding himself with quality coaches and I know some programs that just hire anyone who comes or their buddy that needs a job and doesn't help them get any better. I know it is hard to find coaches in some places but how in the world can some programs only have 2 teachers on staff out of 10 coaches? The thing you run into then is people with real jobs not getting off work then the program suffers because you can't conduct a useful practice due to being short handed.
 
Do you know anything about Edisto High School as I watched them play Gilbert. They were 1-9 and looking at their scores were pretty much blown out in every game? After coming off the state's longest win streak they only won one game against Eau Claire which is not saying much. So they won that game in week 3 I think and have started another losing streak. If a team is showing they are getting better and at least keeping games close would you count that as a productive year if instead of blowouts the games were less than a 2 score game close. Not 49-7, 56-14, etc. Thoughts?
 
St. James did not look like a team that was coached badly or even giving up. They just did not have athletes on the field to compete. I think, you can probably walk around any school these days and see big athletic kids but getting them to dedicate their lives to HSFB is a different story. Football has peaked and is no doubt dangerous but fun to watch, play and WIN.
 
Coach Carter just took over at Edisto this year. He will get them on the right track. He did it at Lake Marion. He is an Orangeburg county guy who got the kids out to play this year, which was a huge step in the right direction. You always have to remember, that losing streak they were on was in AA and this year because of realignment, they had to bump up and play AAA....so just breaking the streak was an improvement. Now, 2017 and 2018...if they are still posting 1-9 records, you have an argument....but if they win 3 or 4 games this coming year and then have a winning record in 2018....what would you say then........1-9, then 3-7, 6-4......is that a turn around or is that grounds to be fired?
 
Some places just have outside factors that are tough to overcome. Discipline (school-wide) in the tank, finding grades-eligible athletes, funding, teaching schedules that help (i.e. having last period planning or Football PE instead of a class and bus duty til 3:50). Some places, after taking what's eligible, have to teach things that others take for granted because the kids have never played or only started in 8th or 9th grade. There's also a growing number of administrations/administrators that have no clue of what it takes to be successful in Athletics.

Not saying coaches should get a pass, but there are factors in some places that go way beyond X's and O's.
 
underneaththelights said:
Coach Carter just took over at Edisto this year. He will get them on the right track. He did it at Lake Marion. He is an Orangeburg county guy who got the kids out to play this year, which was a huge step in the right direction. You always have to remember, that losing streak they were on was in AA and this year because of realignment, they had to bump up and play AAA....so just breaking the streak was an improvement. Now, 2017 and 2018...if they are still posting 1-9 records, you have an argument....but if they win 3 or 4 games this coming year and then have a winning record in 2018....what would you say then........1-9, then 3-7, 6-4......is that a turn around or is that grounds to be fired?
Click to expand...
What did he do at LM that made it so great? No upper/lower state championships, no state championships either. How are you so sure he will turn Edisto around? By looking at his coaching staff doesn't look like he is surrounding himself with great coaches as well. Also heard there is only 1 or 2 teachers on staff there as well. Very hard to run a quality practice when you have to work around coaches schedules but who's fault is that for not hiring coaches that teach? Lights how important would you say a strength and conditioning program is for high school football? Can you name one program that plays for a state championship that does not do anything during the summer besides go to different D-I camps?
 
Somebody seems bitter towards Coach Carter. You are correct with the assistants, at least at Lake Marion...he had a tough time finding anyone to come there. At Lake Marion, he did make them competitive...you can argue that if you had Mike Williams, you could be competitive too........you also didn't answer one of the questions...just trying to see what you call a turnaround.....he went 1-9....if he goes 3-7 next year and then 6-4 or 7-3 the following year........do you consider that a successful turnaround......or should a coach not be given that much time?


I do agree with the other poster about their being a lot more at play than just can a coach simply coach. Lets say a coach wins for 10+ years....with 2 or 3 lower or upper state titles and a state championship...and then wins for 3 or 4 more years for 5 or 6 more year (6 to 9 wins a year), and then has a stretch of 4-7, or 1-9 or heaven forbid an 0-10 season....did the guy forget how to coach?

At least there is discussion on the board!
 
I don't know him personally or have every coached with him. I have no bitterness towards him just curious. You're right if I had Mike Williams I could just throw it up and let him go get it like he did sat. But he has the choice to what's around him and I heard the same thing about him not being able to hire assistants at LM but what about edisto he seems to be doing it all himself which is not good. I thought carter was a defensive coach why is he letting someone else do that when he should be? It looks like his dc is the lbs coach whatever his name is and they haven't stopped anyone this year. Thoughts???
 
I don't want you to think I've got something against him bc what he did at lm by himself was great to turn them around but if given the chance to start somewhere new wouldn't bring in guys that want to be there and bc I doubt he's got anyone knocking down the door to get in. But if he did wouldn't you try to hire that coach? Don't know if he does or not or even if the district is allowing him to hire what he wants or needs. I know when satiz was there he had very few coaches on his staff for whatever reason so could be an administrative thing also. But I think they got a new principal that came from BC high school so he should know what it takes to win in sports you would think or am I wrong on that subject.
 
As far as your question about 3-7. Yes I'd think it was grounds for keeping him. But what you're not thinking of is their non-region schedule other than OW and Bamberg they lost to 2 1a programs that they should have beaten that would have put them at 3-7 but the OW and bamberg games weren't even close 49-0 and 45-0. I'd say things were turning around if every game was close and they competed even if they only won one game. That would be making improvements.
 
Completely understand everyone's points, and I'm happy with the discussion.

I completely agree that there are a lot of factors that are outside of a coach's control, specifically anything money-related. Some schools don't have the money to hire good coaches. Some schools don't have the teaching jobs available to lure talent to your school. Some schools don't have the money to invest in camps, food, strength and conditioning equipment, transportation, etc. Anything money-related, I understand. On the other hand, discipline (in my opinion) falls in the hands of the coach. I have seen schools (note: not TEAMS.... entire freakin' SCHOOLS) positively affected because a disciplined coach stepped in and said "Cut the crap!" A principal friend of mine told me that, statistically, 90+% of a school's discipline referrals come from only 5% of a student population, meaning that most of the kids getting written up at a school tend to be the SAME KIDS, over and over again. Now imagine if just 2% out of that 5% are part of a football program with high expectations and a firm disciplinarian, somebody that they respect enough to listen to. Imagine the change a school would go through with that kind of mature standard. That's the purpose of coaching, right? Teach boys how to be men in the real world? Sometimes, those clueless administrations have to be reminded that a healthy athletic department brings a healthy school demeanor and spirit, thus making their schools a better place as a whole.

A good coach eliminates those problems, finds the athletes in the hallway and convinces them to come out. Discipline, participation-- these things can fall under the coach, if the school allows him to. As for the 0-10 to 3-7, and so on, I think growth is the goal. If they survive the 0-10 off-season, then I need something the next year that proves that change is in the making. Now a proven coach goes from championships seasons to 0-10--- that's a different story. I think his success gives him the benefit of the doubt. However, he needs to feel the fire a bit; an investigation needs to take place, and the cause for the back-stepping needs to be found. And if it turns out that the coach has lost his fighting spirit, well, then, you've lost my good will as well.
 
Shiva...

That's a very broad question with LOTS of underlying story lines. I'll tackle them in order with what I know:

Page at LR. Coach Page had become an mainstay in Florence with his many years at Wilson. With several deep runs in the playoffs and a State Championship in 2007, he cemented himself as a quality coach. Once the administration changed there it seemed to change a lot of things at the school. A few years later and he leaves (a move the community was NOT happy about). His reign at LR was a different animal. LOTS of things pulling those kids in different directions including sports within the same building. I know he was disappointed with how that ended, but he gave it all he had. The new coach is Rodney Barr. He played for Page at Wilson and returned to be the Defensive Coordinator for that '07 State Championship team. After a few years he went to North Carolina to work and eventually got a head job. His hire was a bit of a surprise, and the community is in turmoil. We will see if he's given a fair chance to turn them around or not.

St. James - I think - is not an X's and O's, but definitely a Jimmy and Joe's. Robby came out of Guidance (?) and took over a program that just doesn't have a great development system, nor the attraction to keep kids from transferring to Myrtle Beach or Conway. It will take a few years of quality kids who are loyal to the Sharks to give them a string of winning seasons, THEN you can try to get these kids from leaving.

Lakewood... I'm not 100% sure WHAT to make of this one. I remember 10 years or so ago when I watched them in a game and the kicker was about 5 ft, 110 lbs and couldn't kick it 20 yards off the tee. I turned to the guys beside me and asked, "What the heck?" One of them quickly said, "That's a School Board Member's son. Coach has to let him kick." Now I can't "confirm" whether that little fella was a Board Member's son or NOT, but I can confirm that he kicked that whole game and several others that I saw on film that year. That little nugget might be all you need to know about that environment.

Now... your big question was about a coach going 0-10. That's a very complicated question to answer. If a coach goes 0-10 in his first year, then the admin has to weigh if the loses were because he cleaned house of poor coaches and undisciplined kids, just started a weight training regiment that takes a couple years to peak, or if he doesn't have the help he needs. There are stories all over this state of guys who were successful in one school, but not so much at another. It usually has more to do with having quality assistants and players than ANYTHING else. Top shelf coaching can overcome a LOT of slower weaker players and their best efforts. If you can get that kind of coaching with kids with average to above average talent, then you have a program in the making.

If a coach has been there a while and goes 0-10, it might be seriously time to look around. A bad group of players, a rash of injuries, etc. COULD be a logical explanation, or maybe the system he put in place has run its course. But a serious evaluation by the coach, the Admin., etc should determine what is going on.

That's a brief stab at your question.... but be mindful: we are not dealing with some science experiment where the known elements of a "successful" program are just laying out on the table. There are a LOT of schools who are satisfied with losing records because the coach is a high quality person developing outside MEN in his program. Others might be "Yes Men" who do whatever the Admin says and they retain their jobs because they are submissive and this feeds the Admins ego or agenda.

Like I said... complicated question.... could fill a book...

:D
 
You're absolutely right, Coach. And wow: color me impressed on your wide range of knowledge here.

That said, I just like this forum and I hate how dead it is, so I figured I'd give somebody something to debate. When this subject is done, I'll throw another up. We may end up collectively writing a book here, am I right?

:)
 
I'm waiting to see if JB makes any real money off his books.... THEN I'll think about writing one of my own.

:D:D:D
 
Shiva I could Not agree with yyou more about the better your athletic programs are as a whole especially your football program. The better you the more kids come to school and actually want to come there. If your football program is bad your school academically will be bad and will also be bad behaviorally as well. The better the discipline that a head football coach puts ok his program the more it will spread through the school and that is why the principal and the coach and coached all have to be on the same page so they can help each other out.
 
My 2 cents...well like Coach said, there's so many factors you could literally fill up a book. Take 2 schools from my area for example...Southside & Carolina. You can throw a rock any direction at either school and hit athletes. Sometimes it's the athletes not wanting to behave or conform to the rules. Grades are often an underlying issue with programs as well. IMO with those 2 schools in particular it's usually that coaches using the schools as platforms to get other jobs. I'm glad to see the new HC at Carolina is an alum and has brought back others that were successful alums as well. Personally, I think if the kids will buy in they may do ok. The region isn't a monster but it's competitive (Berea, Carolina, Emerald, Palmetto, Powdersville & Southside).

Another factor is priority of sport. I know a man that won a state bball championship and left the school because he knew football and the coach would always be top card. I know another coach that just produced some state champs in individual sports, had a good thing going, left for a bigger program, more support and better facilities. I think deep down he knew his sport would always be low on the totem pole. Some schools just don't have the kind of kids interested in multiple sports. In Gville county these kids change schools like they change underwear based on which sports are peaking at the time.

Last, the feeder is as important as the staff a coach is allowed to assemble. My son just finished up the best season ever in our fledgling rec program of 3 years. The 12u team never won a game. This season we went 13-1, losing our version of a state championship 8-0 to Abbeville. I'm not knocking our MS or it's coaches but we are trying everything we can to get our team to commit to playing for us again as 7th graders. Out of 23 players, 19 of them attend our schools and 20 of them are eligible to return to our team. The key is our coaches. We are fortunate to have 2 very good and experienced coaches. They are teaching our boys very similar versions of what our HS team runs. Both came from successful HS programs as players, had successful college careers, 1 had an opportunity to coach at the school. Only drawback for them, both are professionals in their respective fields, have 4 children and are the sole providers for their families. They would be tremendous MS or JV coaches. They are both also great at communicating and teaching our boys about life outside of sports and how to carry themselves. Sorry for rambling, love the topic!
 
In the end it is all about what we teach our kids. It is a sport but there are so many life lessons to teach the kids and what they can learn from sports. You have to have a coach that is involved with them, willing to go that extra mile, and willing to do what it takes to get the community involved. There other thing though is having an ad/head football coach that has a general knowledge of all sports not just the one they coach is a huge help when making a program successful.
 
BulldogZ91 said:
My 2 cents...well like Coach said, there's so many factors you could literally fill up a book. Take 2 schools from my area for example...Southside & Carolina. You can throw a rock any direction at either school and hit athletes. Sometimes it's the athletes not wanting to behave or conform to the rules. Grades are often an underlying issue with programs as well. IMO with those 2 schools in particular it's usually that coaches using the schools as platforms to get other jobs. I'm glad to see the new HC at Carolina is an alum and has brought back others that were successful alums as well. Personally, I think if the kids will buy in they may do ok. The region isn't a monster but it's competitive (Berea, Carolina, Emerald, Palmetto, Powdersville & Southside).

Another factor is priority of sport. I know a man that won a state bball championship and left the school because he knew football and the coach would always be top card. I know another coach that just produced some state champs in individual sports, had a good thing going, left for a bigger program, more support and better facilities. I think deep down he knew his sport would always be low on the totem pole. Some schools just don't have the kind of kids interested in multiple sports. In Gville county these kids change schools like they change underwear based on which sports are peaking at the time.

Last, the feeder is as important as the staff a coach is allowed to assemble. My son just finished up the best season ever in our fledgling rec program of 3 years. The 12u team never won a game. This season we went 13-1, losing our version of a state championship 8-0 to Abbeville. I'm not knocking our MS or it's coaches but we are trying everything we can to get our team to commit to playing for us again as 7th graders. Out of 23 players, 19 of them attend our schools and 20 of them are eligible to return to our team. The key is our coaches. We are fortunate to have 2 very good and experienced coaches. They are teaching our boys very similar versions of what our HS team runs. Both came from successful HS programs as players, had successful college careers, 1 had an opportunity to coach at the school. Only drawback for them, both are professionals in their respective fields, have 4 children and are the sole providers for their families. They would be tremendous MS or JV coaches. They are both also great at communicating and teaching our boys about life outside of sports and how to carry themselves. Sorry for rambling, love the topic!
Click to expand...

Carolina was so poorly coached this year it made no sense. They don't even know basic schemes and formations. Just because someone went to a school doesn't mean they are a good hire. That team was so bad that other teams struggled to keep from putting up 70 and it was clear, even lacking great players, the coaches had zero idea of what was going on. Carolina would be better served to hire someone that will do a good job and use it for another job ala Mark Hodge and Doug Shaw.
 
Cringeworthy said:
Carolina was so poorly coached this year it made no sense. They don't even know basic schemes and formations. Just because someone went to a school doesn't mean they are a good hire. That team was so bad that other teams struggled to keep from putting up 70 and it was clear, even lacking great players, the coaches had zero idea of what was going on. Carolina would be better served to hire someone that will do a good job and use it for another job ala Mark Hodge and Doug Shaw.
Click to expand...

I only saw them play once this season. In that game they had as many players in street clothes as they did participating in the game. The thing that always ticks me off about the C-Train is the total lack of support from fans. I watched them a few years ago with a few very good players play their guts out and never had more than 100 people in the stands. The biggest crowd I remember them having was for a vigil for one of their players that was shot and killed. All I could do was look around at the kids and think..."you, you, you, you, maybe you, def. you, need to be here on the field playing, learning to be there for each other, fighting side by side, bleeding & sweating together. Not here because it's the thing everyone else is doing." Sad, really sad.
 
BulldogZ91 said:
I only saw them play once this season. In that game they had as many players in street clothes as they did participating in the game. The thing that always ticks me off about the C-Train is the total lack of support from fans. I watched them a few years ago with a few very good players play their guts out and never had more than 100 people in the stands. The biggest crowd I remember them having was for a vigil for one of their players that was shot and killed. All I could do was look around at the kids and think..."you, you, you, you, maybe you, def. you, need to be here on the field playing, learning to be there for each other, fighting side by side, bleeding & sweating together. Not here because it's the thing everyone else is doing." Sad, really sad.
Click to expand...

That is correct and the dynamics at play now in that area mean even less fan support. Several schools are becoming this way. Southside has always been that way but Berea which used to have great community support is now going the same way as the other two schools. Unless you are in a town that is located a good distance from metro areas, (Abbeville, Dillon, Clinton, and some of the schools like Allendale-Fairfax, Blackville-Hilda, Wade Hampton (H), and Ninety-Six come to mind) there are just too many options on Friday nights for kids other than high school football.
 
I know several of the coaches for my beloved Bulldogs and they are doing everything they can. If they can ever get a complete team with consistent depth they will be fine. They just always have something that interferes. Take this season for example, 1-2 good linemen, the rest are either really young or just not very good. Kid playing QB should be a WR. Really good running back but no blocking. Had another WR that could've been pretty good...kicked off the team. It's like they have a dark cloud over them. The interest is therefrom the kids they just need to put it all together.
 
BulldogZ91 said:
I know several of the coaches for my beloved Bulldogs and they are doing everything they can. If they can ever get a complete team with consistent depth they will be fine. They just always have something that interferes. Take this season for example, 1-2 good linemen, the rest are either really young or just not very good. Kid playing QB should be a WR. Really good running back but no blocking. Had another WR that could've been pretty good...kicked off the team. It's like they have a dark cloud over them. The interest is therefrom the kids they just need to put it all together.
Click to expand...

If anybody can do it, it is Wayne but I am wondering if the pipeline will ever be there consistently again to be competitive year in and year out.
 
If they can change the kid's attitudes they'll be ok. Some them are still a little immature but hopefully that'll change by next year.
 
Guys I would like to give my opinion. We are talking about high school and you can not recruit players to come in. So a coach has to play the hand he was dealt. I think in HS that if a coach is teaching character, instilling discipline, physically preparing his team the life lessons are much more important than the wins. No I do believe that if the above are being taught then success will follow. To support my thoughts how many football players actually go on to play college? Then how many go on to the pros? I think the percentage is 10% or less and 1% to go on to play professionally. I think coaches get too much credit and take too much blame. I can't imagine a coach going 0-10 -1-9 and 0-10 and wanting to stay. Just my 2 cents worth guys.
 
You cannot recruit players (in theory), but you can walk the halls at your school and see who should be out there and who is not. I think Bulldog's statement affected me the most here, going to that vigil and seeing all the kids that should be out there, sweating, bleeding, and the like. Great image, and even more powerful statement. These kids learn so much out on the football field that doesn't have a dang thing to do with football, if a good head coach knows how to do it right. They aren't learning anything getting on that afternoon bus and going home.

And, of course, everything correlates. A good head coach knows how to teach a kid football and so much more. That encourages more kids to come out. The coach handles the X's and the O's, and his quality teaching brings out the Jimmy's and the Joe's. Then success follows. Any coach landing in that 0-10 or even 1-9 range... I just can't see them doing the little things right, and like all things in football, it correlates. Everything has it's story and underlying cause, and every situation is different and should be judged so, but if you're asking me whether an 0-10 coach should keep his job? I can't see anything but "no." Next man up.

By the way, guys, I loved doing this and the conversation it brings. I plan on throwing a new topic up tomorrow. Message me if you have any topic ideas or if you have an idea about what I should name this blog/series of threads. And feel free to keep this conversation going; no reason for it to die if you feel like we haven't beaten this dead horse enough. This is fun. Thanks, guys.
 
I guess it just goes along with that topic...some people have said as long as a coach shows improvement but some say 0-10 and he gotta go...and I understand both sides.......so lets say a coach comes into a 0-10, 1-9 or even a 2-8 team and is hired in the spring...just in time to have a meaningful spring practice, if nothing else, at least to evaluate........and you're the admin or the powers that be....what do you expect from that coach in year 1 or does the new coach get 2 or 3 years....what if the new coach replicates the exact same record...does he get a year 2?

Personally I feel like years 2-3 is where the biggest change normally happens.....using a college reference...most people who are option heavy, their second year is their biggest jump in winning percentage....take a look at the Citadel, when they hired their new guy who went back to triple option ball...year 1 was about the same as the previous....and then year 2 things started coming around and now even with a different coach, but same system in place...10-0. I also feel like there are few administrators out there who have a good grasp or idea about what kind of kids/athletes the school really has.....I think the biggest take away from this discussion is that very few schools/situations are the same...some have athletes and terrible coaches...some have coaches with average players...some schools have dry runs when it comes to athletes. So many different things at play......or you get a Berkeley that truly just needed a change and a different guy....didn't hurt that their schedule/region changed either...but still...this guy has beaten most on his schedule and that's all a coach can do.
 
ShivaBlast said:
You cannot recruit players (in theory), but you can walk the halls at your school and see who should be out there and who is not. I think Bulldog's statement affected me the most here, going to that vigil and seeing all the kids that should be out there, sweating, bleeding, and the like. Great image, and even more powerful statement. These kids learn so much out on the football field that doesn't have a dang thing to do with football, if a good head coach knows how to do it right. They aren't learning anything getting on that afternoon bus and going home.

And, of course, everything correlates. A good head coach knows how to teach a kid football and so much more. That encourages more kids to come out. The coach handles the X's and the O's, and his quality teaching brings out the Jimmy's and the Joe's. Then success follows. Any coach landing in that 0-10 or even 1-9 range... I just can't see them doing the little things right, and like all things in football, it correlates. Everything has it's story and underlying cause, and every situation is different and should be judged so, but if you're asking me whether an 0-10 coach should keep his job? I can't see anything but "no." Next man up.

By the way, guys, I loved doing this and the conversation it brings. I plan on throwing a new topic up tomorrow. Message me if you have any topic ideas or if you have an idea about what I should name this blog/series of threads. And feel free to keep this conversation going; no reason for it to die if you feel like we haven't beaten this dead horse enough. This is fun. Thanks, guys.
Click to expand...
I have a thread for you what about giving young coaches a chance?
 
Not hiring buddies and hiring guys that work hard but don't know the right people to get them in the door. Thoughts?
 
I will give my 2 cents. A lot of fans look at HS football coaches the same as College FB coaches. There are several differences. 1st the coach is a teacher in the class room I know at AR the HC teaches a full load and I am not talking about PE, I think the HC teaches Gov't/Econ/History, DC teaches Science, OC teaches full load and so on...College coaches get all day/week to prepare 12 plus hrs. HS not so much, next the College coach recruits nationwide...High School coach recruits the hallways and gets the kid assigned to the school.
Now again I will use AR for this example. The school has been around since 2008 the current HC just finished up his 7th season. When a school first opens the first 3 or so years are not great. So they are already behind the 8 ball in winning tradition. Now the current HC at AR has won 2 Region titles, been to the semi finals of the state playoffs, has a winning record overall, went 7-5 and 10-2 the last two years. This year he goes 3-8 and people are wanting him fired....REALLY, I mean AR is the step child of the district, the guy has won and been very competitive for the most part. This year he had to replace a Division 1 QB, a Division 1 LB, a Division 2 OL, and several other positions that had started for the last 3 years. People have to remember this IS NOT COLLEGE FOOTBALL...THE COACHES DO MORE THAN COACH. I heard one parent say Friday night they were glad AR lost because he wants a new coach so his son can play the right position. I thought that is part of the problem now days PARENTS believe their kid is entitled.
You asked should a coach be fired for going 0-10, 2-8 or whatever. Let me break it down for you, Last year AR won 10 games and in those 10 games over half were come back wins that could and probably should have been losses. This year AR went 3-8 and over half of those losses could have and should have been wins. DO you think the coach told the RB at AR against GC with 1:10 left hey son I want you to fumble the ball with us up 6 pts.
I can go on and on, but it really does get to me when someone says oh the coach needs to be fired. Yes I do think if there is a consistent level of losing there should be a change but like another poster said too, The head of the school or the AD also needs to stand up for the coach. If you want a full time coach then let him coach full time, if you want a part time coach then deal with what you get.
Some will say well such and such schools coaches teach full time...Really I can dispute that too for every argument there is a rebuttal too. But this isn't COLLEGE FOOTBALL, ITS HIGH SCHOOL. A LOT MORE GOES INTO IT, LIKE COLLEGES HS have to have support, backing, funding, and so on. In my opinion NO one bad year or two bad years doesn't call for a coach to be fired. YES CANE BAY went 0-11 after having 2 winning seasons and then had another losing season after the 0-11 season and then last year went 6-6, this year 10-1...All with the same coach. So should he been fired after 0-11 and just two years before he had winning seasons.
 
B team and jv are your indicators for the future. I told my son his junior year they would be competitive and senior year could contend. 7-3 and 8-2 B team records when he was in 8th and 9th grade.
 
Successful coaches don't suddenly forget how to coach or how to win. It takes complete and total buy-in by the players. Everyone is always quick to point the finger at the coach if the team doesn't do well. If those same finger pointers would take the time to look at the issues they would see that most times it is the players who make untimely mistakes. That is not to say any coach is perfect, they make mistakes also.....the point is that no one ever wants to admit that "their kids" are just not good enough as compared to the competition they are playing against and losing to. That is too hard to swallow that "my little Johnny" is slightly less of a player than their "little Billy". Life is hard, put on your big boy drawers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: underneaththelights and DuckDitchTiger
A lot of disgruntlement comes from parents, not players or students or administration .These are the same parents who believe or would like to believe that johnny never lied or exaggerated !! Nor stole anything in their life. What it boils down too, is Coach holding the kids accountable, showing them how to continue when life beats you down- teaching them to be REAL men.
 
badcats said:
A lot of disgruntlement comes from parents, not players or students or administration .These are the same parents who believe or would like to believe that johnny never lied or exaggerated !! Nor stole anything in their life. What it boils down too, is Coach holding the kids accountable, showing them how to continue when life beats you down- teaching them to be REAL men.
Click to expand...


Be careful there with all that truth.... nowadays, they don't like too much of that being in one place at one time.

o_O
 
I will go a step further...The disgruntlement comes from the parents that rubs off on the players/students. Meaning when Momma and Dadda bad mouth the coaches in front of the player/student then the player and student side with them and blame the coaches...My one rule is to not bad mouth a coach in front of a player or bad mouth the coach that the player plays for. Now I am guilty of calling other teams coaches idiots but hey that's ok right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: smac77
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L

'26 Zyon Guiles updates recruitment from Clemson, South Carolina, Coastal Carolina

Replies
0
Views
4K
PalmettoPreps Premium Forum
Lee Wardlaw
L
L

2023 DB Javien Butler (Ridge View) drawing interest from FCS, D2 schools

Replies
0
Views
1K
PalmettoPreps Premium Forum
Lee Wardlaw
L
3

600lbs Power Cage, 700lbs Olympic Barbell, Bench, 320 LBS Plates $107

Replies
0
Views
208
PalmettoPreps.com Discussion Forum
3passMac
3
B

1000lbs Max Load Barbell $74 Buy Now Pay Later For $18.50

Replies
0
Views
127
PalmettoPreps.com Discussion Forum
bigtruss8
B
C

Inside the film room: Southside's Semaj Scott

Replies
0
Views
468
PalmettoPreps Premium Forum
Chris Clark
C
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back