What if X number of coaches got together and made up a survey for fans, parents, wrestlers, etc. I know a lot of programs have a banquet after the season have them fill it out and return them that night and compile all of them and go to the SCHSL with them. I don't know if this will help but nothing will change until the wrestling community gets together to change it, this would be a start.
SCHSL
- Thread starter mrautomaticsmom
- Start date
I think we need paper with names, email, phone. Have someone deliver them to the SCHSL, I would love to see boxes upon boxes. You have to make an impact. Heck start at SCWAY in 2 weeks at River Bluff.
There are no "negative stars" lol
The state tournament was without a doubt the worst tournament that I have ever been to. I have been to middle school tournaments when my son was wrestling for his middle school that were ran better than this tournament. I think the biggest disappointment was most of the officials. Why are officials being evaluated during the finals? I am assuming that the officials that are evaluating the others are considered our "best officials" so why are they not on the mat?
Agreed. I'm not sure what all these officials were thinking. Has anyone emailed the district head officials and expressed their concern and disgust in how their officials performed their job this past weekend? If you haven't I added their names and email addresses in the other post. I really think we should let them have it. Everyone should.
If the official that evaluates in our area is considered the best, I would hate to see the worst. I've been watching him screw up calls consistently (every single match) for the last 10 years. No way I would want him on a State Finals match. Its all so frustrating.
I have sent multiple emails to as many people in the SCHSL directory that I think have ties to wrestling. I have received a few responses, none with any real insight or willingness to change.
I think people on this message board, especially coaches need to continue to do the same. Reach out to your athletic director & principal. Email and call the executives in the SCHSL. If all that we do is complain on the message board, we are just as bad as the people we are complaining about. Coaches, especially you, should be demanding some change. They claim that wrestling is a shrinking sport, but from what I can see, we hold our own. We fill the venues that they put us in. At my school, we are actually turning a profit at our home matches. We have to push the action. Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
So, who have you contacted? Who has responded to you? Let's keep the momentum going. We have to be the change agent. Basketball is more widely popular, but the SCHSL should not be giving them the lions share of the support. That is bullshit, and we have to change that. Are you willing to do it?
I have heard back from Charlie Wentky, who answer was crap. -"Thanks for your email. According to data provided to us, Wrestling is not growing nationally and the number of high school participants across the country is actually declining. Even with the numbers declining, South Carolina is one of a handful of states that offers both a dual championship in the sport and an individual championship. We are always working with our schools and coaches to make things better in all the sports that we offer. Thank you for your interest in high school sports and your support of the members of our league. "
I have heard back from Neal Collins, who seems legitimately concerned. I have heard back from Paul Hernandez, who I have been playing phone tag with.
I have also heard back from Todd McCormick. - "we are going over what we need to change and looking forward to making it a better event next year. We will go to 4 mats for finals and do a different parade. We also have showers available which no one has asked me for before. We will also have a warm up area. We have areas before also. We also have more staff for bathrooms. We have bathrooms at both ends plus up front. And yes AC both days. Thank you for your ideas."
What are you doing? What is working? Let's not let this die down. Thanks.
I think people on this message board, especially coaches need to continue to do the same. Reach out to your athletic director & principal. Email and call the executives in the SCHSL. If all that we do is complain on the message board, we are just as bad as the people we are complaining about. Coaches, especially you, should be demanding some change. They claim that wrestling is a shrinking sport, but from what I can see, we hold our own. We fill the venues that they put us in. At my school, we are actually turning a profit at our home matches. We have to push the action. Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
So, who have you contacted? Who has responded to you? Let's keep the momentum going. We have to be the change agent. Basketball is more widely popular, but the SCHSL should not be giving them the lions share of the support. That is bullshit, and we have to change that. Are you willing to do it?
I have heard back from Charlie Wentky, who answer was crap. -"Thanks for your email. According to data provided to us, Wrestling is not growing nationally and the number of high school participants across the country is actually declining. Even with the numbers declining, South Carolina is one of a handful of states that offers both a dual championship in the sport and an individual championship. We are always working with our schools and coaches to make things better in all the sports that we offer. Thank you for your interest in high school sports and your support of the members of our league. "
I have heard back from Neal Collins, who seems legitimately concerned. I have heard back from Paul Hernandez, who I have been playing phone tag with.
I have also heard back from Todd McCormick. - "we are going over what we need to change and looking forward to making it a better event next year. We will go to 4 mats for finals and do a different parade. We also have showers available which no one has asked me for before. We will also have a warm up area. We have areas before also. We also have more staff for bathrooms. We have bathrooms at both ends plus up front. And yes AC both days. Thank you for your ideas."
What are you doing? What is working? Let's not let this die down. Thanks.
Lowcountry Wrestling Fan,
I can promise you, the coaches do voice their opinions and concerns. It is hard to get things done when it is out of the coaches hands and left up to Football coaches/AD to make the decision. Just last year or the year before there was change that the wrestling coaches wanted. A vote was made by the wrestling coaches and it was in favor of this change 119 to 1. 119-1 is an unbelievable number. You think this would get pushed through. Think again. It was shot down. This is the problem. No matter what we as coaches want to do to better our sport and grow our sport, it is ultimately left up to people who either know nothing about it or people who care to know nothing about it.
Wow, Wentzky's response is very disturbing and unfortunately an insight into the thinking of the SCHSL. I fear for the future of the sport.
sounds like he has the "out of sight out of mind" mentality which will ultimately decrease our sport and its numbers since the SCHSL puts wrestling on the back burner to almost every other sport. Its always been my argument that if basketball can have theirs at Bon Secours then why cant wrestling. I think it makes more money when they don't have to pay as much for the ACC as they would a bigger venue.
Wonder what the youth wrestling numbers in SC look like. Seems to me it is growing. Wonder if SCYWA could show them those numbers?
I know that there are people on this message board that are involved in SCYWA, AAU, and USA Wrestling. Again all of those people need to get active in changing this situation. Let's put our energy and focus on this. Together we can make a change. Look at all the coverage that the SCHSL has afforded basketball. Press conferences, TV coverage, etc. Our sport maybe cannot pull the numbers that basketball does, but that doesn't mean that we should be sat in the corner and told to be happy with what we get. We should at least be able to get a decent stream for out of area family members to be able to watch on line. I pay for the NFHS, and while the duals coverage was decent, the individuals coverage was embarrassing.
Nothing changes while we bitch on the message board. You all have friends and family that are not on here. Get them involved. There are coaches that are not on here, make them aware. Change is not easy, or fast, but we owe it to these and future kids.
Nothing changes while we bitch on the message board. You all have friends and family that are not on here. Get them involved. There are coaches that are not on here, make them aware. Change is not easy, or fast, but we owe it to these and future kids.
I think the youth wrestling environment is the most important piece in growing wrestling, it's growth and success will have a direct impact on HS wrestling and assist the HS coaches in getting things accomplished on their end.
By doing a Trackwrestling comparison, youth numbers seem to have not really moved much one way or the other over the past 3-4 years. While I think SCYWA has put the effort in and done a good job getting their advanced wrestlers to regional/national competitions, but I feel like more needs to be done to grow/increase numbers.
It blows my mind that for years they have refused to adopt split sessions for their tournaments. I believe that might be the single biggest factor hurting the growth.
By doing a Trackwrestling comparison, youth numbers seem to have not really moved much one way or the other over the past 3-4 years. While I think SCYWA has put the effort in and done a good job getting their advanced wrestlers to regional/national competitions, but I feel like more needs to be done to grow/increase numbers.
It blows my mind that for years they have refused to adopt split sessions for their tournaments. I believe that might be the single biggest factor hurting the growth.
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Whats the purpose of the new rule that says kids have to compete at three events to qualify to wrestle st AAU state? Seems like this hurts the kids who can't get to three.
The idea I'm sure is to try and increase participation at the SCYWA events, but I'm not sure that is an effective approach. I believe that the best way is to put the best product out there week after week and participation will increase, kids will stay in state.
Split sessions would go a long way. That way little 6/7 year old Johnny and family can wrestle be done by noon and enjoy the rest of their Saturday. Well run, professional and efficient tournaments are the key. The parents are your target customers early on.
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The three event rule is news to me. It must have been introduced within the last year or so. I can see that hurting high school guys who compete at the high school level and cant compete at SCYWA events because they wrestle already those weekends. I would imagine if you qualified for your classifications state event you would be able to automatically get into AAU/SCYWA state.
Only applies to youth. Issue is for the high school coaches that run their youth programs or in my case, one wrestling high school every weekend and one trying to wrestle youth events.
I could take him over to the Eagles program I guess so he would be assured a spot as a ninth grader in a few years!
I could take him over to the Eagles program I guess so he would be assured a spot as a ninth grader in a few years!
So I have done some statistical research on HS wrestling using NFHS.com as a source.
Over the past 20 years, avg number of wrestlers per school as been pretty consistent between 25 and 28. The number of schools offering wrestling has increased by 1920 schools. The number of participants has increased by 47378.
While this year avg numbers of wrestlers was down, the numbers go up and down every 2 or three years, but always ending higher than the last shift.
One of the biggest drops in participation came in 2013 after it had been announced that wrestling was being removed from the Olympics. The following year it bounced back.
Overall from what I researched i would say that while the avg number of participants stays pretty much the same, the number of schools and participants continues to grow over time.
So it tells me that when the statement is made that interest in wrestling is declining it is someone picking and choosing only one or two years to benefit their own agenda, rather then looking at the sport long term.
Over the past 20 years, avg number of wrestlers per school as been pretty consistent between 25 and 28. The number of schools offering wrestling has increased by 1920 schools. The number of participants has increased by 47378.
While this year avg numbers of wrestlers was down, the numbers go up and down every 2 or three years, but always ending higher than the last shift.
One of the biggest drops in participation came in 2013 after it had been announced that wrestling was being removed from the Olympics. The following year it bounced back.
Overall from what I researched i would say that while the avg number of participants stays pretty much the same, the number of schools and participants continues to grow over time.
So it tells me that when the statement is made that interest in wrestling is declining it is someone picking and choosing only one or two years to benefit their own agenda, rather then looking at the sport long term.
Could you post some links to that so that I could send that information back to Mr Wentzky?
Should send his response to some of the big names like TJ Dudley to see if he/they can get even bigger names to respond to this jerk at the SCHSL office.
you can view all the participation surveys here
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/
Basically, overall we've been going up. There was a downtick in 2015, however one year does not make a trend. What it does is make excuses.
That graph shows exactly what I mentioned. Overall the sport has grown tremendously over the past 20 years.
When you go to big tournaments outside of SC for the most part SC Wrestling is looked down on. It is not the talent as we have some extremely talented wrestlers in the sport, it the way those who are in charge of the sport (like the SCHSL) represent us. You have to fight for every dime of wrestling money here in SC. You have to fight for every chance to grow the sport. Its ridiculous. I have seen Coaches literally have to beg to get new mats when the ones they have are torn and peeling, but their football stadium gets enhancements. I have seen then have to beg for new singlets when they are torn and faded, yet their baseball teams get new uniforms every year. Its a real shame.
The schools and SCHSL act they have wrestling only because they have too.
When you go to big tournaments outside of SC for the most part SC Wrestling is looked down on. It is not the talent as we have some extremely talented wrestlers in the sport, it the way those who are in charge of the sport (like the SCHSL) represent us. You have to fight for every dime of wrestling money here in SC. You have to fight for every chance to grow the sport. Its ridiculous. I have seen Coaches literally have to beg to get new mats when the ones they have are torn and peeling, but their football stadium gets enhancements. I have seen then have to beg for new singlets when they are torn and faded, yet their baseball teams get new uniforms every year. Its a real shame.
The schools and SCHSL act they have wrestling only because they have too.
If you don't mind me asking, what was the email you sent to Mr Wentzky? I just want to know if there was a reason he sounded like a total jerk in his reply. Lol. It would also be nice to know how many states offer a dual and individual tournament because as far as I know it's not just a "few" as Mr Wentzky suggests. Does anyone know if the SCHSL has any open meetings during the year for concerned members of the athletic community to attend? Should we stage a protest at the office? Those seem to be popular recently haha and also it would garner some media attention. (I'm half kidding/half serious) but if anyone else is in, let's figure out something. We have to stand up for our sport if our own Asst. Commissioner won't stand for us.
Below is the email copied from the original. I have sent him another response to which I have heard nothing back. He is the only person from the SCHSL that responded with any type of disdain. I researched him after the response because I could not understand why he was so curt and dismissive. He is a baseball guy, who also oversees football, wrestling, baseball & softball. His interaction has been the most disappointing aspect of all this communication following the weekend. I feel quite certain that if his sport of baseball were being shown the amount of indifference that he has shown wrestling, he would not stand for it. Please let me know if I was out of bounds with any of my communication with him.
Good Afternoon.
I wanted to take a minute and address something that has been on my mind since this weekend. I hope that this does not fall on deaf ears. While I certainly do not expect a reply from everyone on this email, I would hope to hear something back.
This weekend I attended the SCHSL Wrestling State Championships in Anderson at the Civic Center. This was a very poor showing for our state, in a sport that is growing nationally. While I recognize that Georgia has a much larger population, our neighboring state is a shining example of how to do this properly. I know that I am not alone in this feeling. Please understand that what is done by the people who put this on is appreciated, but we will never get better without acknowledging where there is room for improvement, and our kids deserve that.
The Anderson Civic Center is not the best venue to host this wrestling tournament. There is not adequate room nor facilities for the wrestlers to warm up or be on deck for their next match. There is not enough restroom facilities for the amount of participants, and spectators. Over two days, it was apparent, that was the case. The facility workers could not keep the supplies stocked in the restrooms, and there was always a line at any of the three available options. The facility was uncomfortably hot due to the air conditioning not being run. This is not acceptable. There are other facilities that can host an event this large, and prestigious. Again, we owe that to these kids. There are several ways to achieve that.
We can get sponsors for the event, who for a fee can sell there merchandise at the event. There are more than a few wrestling merchandise companies that would jump at the chance. Someone should be looking in to this. There are competitive companies could live stream the event as well. While Floarena was used to track the bracket, other states use this or Trackwrestling to stream the events. Another source of revenue, and an opportunity for families, recruiters, and coaches to watch the event. Our neighboring states take advantage of these services, and benefit from them. I am unsure of what conflict may arise from using NFHS Network, but this should be figured out and available.
Our state does a great job with basketball and football when it comes to these events. I have attended the last 6 state championship games, and feel as if they are put on very well. The facilities are flawless and the right venue for the magnitude, and attendance level. Conversely I have watched several basketball events streaming on NFHS, and attended some lower state events live. All were done very well. The same level of attention to detail is not being applied to our states wrestling events, and it shows. The coaches in our state know that they are not receiving the same level of support from SCHSL that other sports are.
All of you are quite aware of the incoming population in to our state. A considerable amount of the people that are incoming, are coming from states that have strong and established wrestling tradition and leadership. Several of the winners of state championships this weekend were won by transplants from other states. It is recognized by those families that our state is lacking in support for wrestling. We have the resources, they just need to be applied better. Our Lower and Upper state basketball championships from this weekend were better put on events, and that should not be the case.
Please do not dismiss my communication, and actually consider making changes. The sport is growing and can be at least a break even venture. The kids deserve it as they are working very diligently to grow the sport in our state. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
That statement of just a handful that offer both Individual and Dual Championships struck me as odd. I reached out to a good authority on the National level and he told me that it's more than just a handful and will dig up some numbers for me. I'll keep you guys posted when I hear back from him.
I can find nothing wrong with this. That was a very well thought out communication from you. Concise, to the point, not condescending, but it stated the facts. I just don't know what else to do if the person who is supposed to be our "representation" at the HSL is so biased towards other sports and seems "anti" wrestling. It angers me to my bones. If you don't mind, when I send an email I would like to quote his response within my writings
I can find nothing wrong with this. That was a very well thought out communication from you. Concise, to the point, not condescending, but it stated the facts. I just don't know what else to do if the person who is supposed to be our "representation" at the HSL is so biased towards other sports and seems "anti" wrestling. It angers me to my bones. If you don't mind, when I send an email I would like to quote his response within my writings
Please do. I have been fighting the temptation to go full nuclear on him, because I know it would be counter productive. I am waiting to hear back from him until tomorrow. At that point I intend to escalate the communication to Mr Singleton and higher.
Who
Who is higher than Commissioner Singleton? Who does he answer to? I have never been under the impression that Commissioner Singleton is a friend of smaller sports especially wrestling; although, I could be mistaken. I would like to know if there is a person or people that he answers to that may be open to listening to our views.
Who is higher than Commissioner Singleton? Who does he answer to? I have never been under the impression that Commissioner Singleton is a friend of smaller sports especially wrestling; although, I could be mistaken. I would like to know if there is a person or people that he answers to that may be open to listening to our views.
Seems to me that we've hit a bit of a snag starting in 2013, and our snag seems to be worse than the nation. However, our SC graph doesn't take into account the whole Aiken area starting programs this year. I'd really like to see what our 2016-2017 numbers end up being.
Also, Since 1975 the only sport that has passed us by nationally in terms of participation numbers (for boys) is soccer. We were the 5th most popular high school sport for boys in 1975, and now that soccer has passed us, we're number 6. I didn't look into whether or not the whole high school sports participation rate has been increasing or not since 1975.
Also, Since 1975 the only sport that has passed us by nationally in terms of participation numbers (for boys) is soccer. We were the 5th most popular high school sport for boys in 1975, and now that soccer has passed us, we're number 6. I didn't look into whether or not the whole high school sports participation rate has been increasing or not since 1975.
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I love the information but I will say it again, send these communications to the SCHSL. Please strike now while the iron is hot. Email Wentzky, Singleton, & copy your AD. There are some great people on these message boards, let's galvanize the SCHSL in to action.
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