Junior National Duals

[CavemanMMA]

The South Carolina Junior Dual team is about to start day three with Freestyle in Tulsa, Oklahoma at Junior National Duals. I have been trying to stream the matches live on Facebook with my phone allowing and cooperating. Fargo is right around the corner and these boys are learning and progressing as they are using this tournament as preparation. We are closing in on the deadline to be a part of the trip to Fargo so make sure you contact myself or Robert Delgado ASAP if you are interested.

The Junior Dual team finished up 2-3 Not counting byes/forfeits and fought hard while giving up 5 empty weight classes. We had some big wins and we learned some hard lessons but I am extremely proud of the effort and motivated by what I am seeing!!!

 

[Eagleguy]

Trent did a great job coaching the Jr. team ,Kids fought hard and represented the state of South Carolina well. As always we could have used more numbers but the quality of those going was unquestioned.

 

[ParTerre57]

Trent did a great job coaching the Jr. team ,Kids fought hard and represented the state of South Carolina well. As always we could have used more numbers but the quality of those going was unquestioned.

I agree. I watched as many of the matches as I could on Track and via the FB live (great move by the way) and felt pretty good about the performance. Team scores should be ignored when giving up so many forfeits but the actual match action was generally competitive on our end. Awesome job, all!

 

[revfrank4]

I watched all of the matches & had a kid on the team. Trent did an outstanding job coaching them up. We still have some holes in our line up which is always going to make it tough to compete. The team definitely is going in the right direction, and that has a lot to do with the coaching. Thanks.

 

[SButler]

Great accomplishment for Hart and Mansfield too on making All Tournament Team.

 

[ParTerre57]

I watched all of the matches & had a kid on the team. Trent did an outstanding job coaching them up. We still have some holes in our line up which is always going to make it tough to compete. The team definitely is going in the right direction, and that has a lot to do with the coaching. Thanks.

Totally agree. With a full team we compete with the Oregon's and Washington's of the world and blow the doors off of the likes of Louisiana (who we really dominated but were killed by the forfeits)

 

[LowcountryWrestlingFan]

It might also be beneficial to use kids who wrestle at USA Wrestling events. Three of the kids on the team did not wrestle at one single FS / GR event this year. I'm not saying that is the coaches fault, but our local USA Wrestling should be out finding a way to get kids involved. We have lots of good wrestlers in our state (including some of those on the team) who don't participate. In my opinion if out SCUSAW can't get kids involved, they should resign and find people who can. Look at how many teams at both Cadet & Junior Duals sent multiple teams. Some of those states have smaller populations that our state. They just have better organized USA Wrestling. It isn't the coaches, both Coach Goodale & Coach Camp should not be looked at as the problem. The board for SCUSAW should have at least one high school coach. We have not one. Look at Disney Duals as an example. Our state sent two teams. We can't field one full team for the USAW Duals. Need new leadership.

 

[SButler]

SCUSAW needs to be more realistic and start utilizing the coaches in different parts of the state who want to help. Or else it will remain primarily SCUSAW upstate, with a few Lowcountry wrestlers sprinkled in! If the goal is to get more kids involved, then we need to make training and camps more accessible.
There is a coach in the Lower State, an accomplished SC guy with D1 experience who wants to be part of the solution. He could train the lower state kids during run up to Duals/Fargo etc. Make it convenient and easy on families/kids and help with participation. I sent this info to a member of SCUSAW and to my knowledge they haven't reached out to him and didn't seem interested in that dynamic. We want everything running through Greenville.......I'm sure Goodale is a good coach, but there is no reason we can't have another good coach or two In the right geographic parts of the state, heading up efforts in those areas. I believe that would certainly help with participation.

 

[Jasonwilkins]

SCUSAW needs to be more realistic and start utilizing the coaches in different parts of the state who want to help. Or else it will remain primarily SCUSAW upstate, with a few Lowcountry wrestlers sprinkled in! If the goal is to get more kids involved, then we need to make training and camps more accessible.
There is a coach in the Lower State, an accomplished SC guy with D1 experience who wants to be part of the solution. He could train the lower state kids during run up to Duals/Fargo etc. Make it convenient and easy on families/kids and help with participation. I sent this info to a member of SCUSAW and to my knowledge they haven't reached out to him and didn't seem interested in that dynamic. We want everything running through Greenville.......I'm sure Goodale is a good coach, but there is no reason we can't have another good coach or two In the right geographic parts of the state, heading up efforts in those areas. I believe that would certainly help with participation.

Why wait on the ok from SCUSA? If we keep making excuses on why we aren't then we will never be. Start training kids in the lower state. I say this because I know getting a response from SCUSA guys is difficult.

Two things concerning training camps - I believe the practices as a team for Fargo and Duals should be held at the location of the coach.

It's not just practices. Trent has housed and washed laundry for the past month at no cost to any of the kids attending schoolboy, cadet or junior camps. A lot to consider outside of the wrestling part.

I hope the numbers continue to increase. More than training centers, I still believe it starts with the high school coaches and cost. High school coaches have the most influence over their wrestlers!! Coming up with $2k in a month span is difficult for most too.

 

[darth vomitus]

I am not sure about the current SCHSL regulations, but I think in the past this has made it difficult for hs coaches to be extremely active in post season participation. Not to mention that many hs coaches want to spend the spring and summer with family after a long season; but I do agree, we need better participation in freestyle wrestling and our folkstyle coaches are the state's best resource.

 

[Jasonwilkins]

I don't mean they should coach the kids in the off season, I mean encourage their wrestlers to participate in Olympic styles.
But
I have heard from parents that several high school coaches around the state are running practices in the off season but their focus is on Folkstyle.

 

[SButler]

The regional training approach will increase participation. You could have Trent in the upstate, a guy like Brantley Hooks in the Lower State etc. Lower State kids could train in the Lower State, Brantley could coordinate those efforts, then maybe for 1-2 days before departure, the kids could get together in one location. For the majority of the training though, it needs to be done regionally. Works better for the kid and the parents.

We aren't at the point in the state where we can dictate requirements, like PA, IA, OH etc can when it comes to mandatory this and that. We are trying just to field a full team, we don't need to create any barriers, we need to remove every obstacle that might keep our best from the ENTIRE state competing.

 

[Jasonwilkins]

I didn't say dictate, I said encourage!
I feel the pain about regional training centers. I drive 1.5 - 2 hours to take my kid to the camps and to train with Trent a couple times a month.
Open a facility in the lowerstate to train these wrestlers. Does SCUSA have to give the ok to train the kids?
I get easily confused so maybe I'm not understanding your point.

 

[revfrank4]

I agree with all of the above. We need high school coaches to encourage kids to participate in Freestyle & Greco. We need more regional training centers. There are guys that aren't necessarily high school coaches like Brantley Hooks, Marshall Haas, or Jordan Wigger that could head those up in the Lowcountry. We also need a better organized SCUSAW. I appreciate what is done, but it could be better. I can only speak for what I know in the Lowcountry, but there are several coaches and teams running off season and strictly coaching folk style, and competing folk style in the off season.

 

[SButler]

I didn't say dictate, I said encourage!
I feel the pain about regional training centers. I drive 1.5 - 2 hours to take my kid to the camps and to train with Trent a couple times a month.
Open a facility in the lowerstate to train these wrestlers. Does SCUSA have to give the ok to train the kids?
I get easily confused so maybe I'm not understanding your point.

There isn't anything confusing. Right now all efforts are focused out of Greenville. I understand that is because Trent is a SCUSAW Coach and he has a facility there. Of course anyone can train kids etc, I don't think that is the discussion. We are talking about SCUSAW as an organization taking steps to increase participation.

I received an email about Duals that said that you HAD to attend a 5 Day Camp at the Cave. Let me ask you this Mr. Wilkins, do you think another coach can put together their own Cadet Dual Team and enter them in Cadet Duals outside of and in addition to the one SCUSAW puts together? Fargo

Again the point hasn't nothing to do about opening a facility etc....There are places for kids in the Lowcountry/Lowerstate to train, the Lower State that produced 8 of the 14 5A State Champions! If we want ALL our best kids representing SC at Schoolboy, Cadet, Junior Duals, Fargo etc..... then we need to get SCUSAW on board with partnering to create more access for kids. They need to make inroads work with HS coaches. The way you do that is you get people in your organization, coaches representing SCUSAW that HS coaches respect and will work with.

 

[CavemanMMA]

Okay I am going to try as hard as I can to answer the questions that I can as well as give some insight (as well as my opinion like always haha) without going off on tangents or making it confusing.

To start, thank you for the kind words that some of you had to say about me and working with the Junior National Teams, as I am not used to that sort of response on here haha. It was a privilege getting to work with all of the kids the past three or so weeks with the schoolboys, cadets, and juniors all spending sleeping and practicing at the cave. The groups of kids that came through and then that I also traveled with were hungry to learn and work hard, they listened, responded, and made adjustments during the camps and the competitions and i believe we saw steady improvement out of all of them along the way.

Next Sbutler, I will try and respond to some of the things that you said one at a time.
1)Thanks for giving Mansfield and Hart props and recognition for their accomplishments this weekend with Hart suffering only one loss in Greco and going undefeated in Freestyle putting him on the All Tournament Team, and Mansfield being one of only 9 wrestlers in the entire tournament to go undefeated in both styles making both All Tournament Teams. (just surprised it wasn't followed up with a but georgia did better hahaha jk jk)
2)As far as Scusa being more realistic and utilizing the coaches in different parts of the state, I can assure you that Scusa is all for using and benefiting from coaches from every corner of the state and as many as we can possibly get involved and helping. There is no need to have secrets on here or even hide behind screen names (I'm not gonna mention any names or anything cough cough Wildgreco) if you have coaches that want to be a part of it or more actively involved then I would encourage you to go ahead and put it out there for all to see because not only will kids and parents in that area seek him out because of it but also it makes sure that he is actively stepping forward and ready to get his hands dirty as well.
3)Now as far as making training and camps more accessible to those in the lower state, I am not sure exactly I understand just what it is that you are wanting or saying here? For starters 3 days of camp prior to leaving on a trip is by no means enough training or sufficient training to prepare for a tournament of the national or regional level, and the reason the camps are held in the upper state for the short prep before leaving is because well, all of the tournaments we take teams to are NORTH. It would not be cost effective or time efficient to hold them in the lower state and have kids/coaches drive hours south and then turn around to back track. By no means does everything have to "Run through Greenville", but most of the wrestlers we have participating on these teams are from the upstate or even greenville area, as well as the coaches that are willing to Volunteer their time, facilities, and other things have happened to be in the upper state. If you do in fact have some capable and willing freestyle/greco coaches wherever you are in the lowcountry then charter a USA club and start holding practices. (Now this is going to be a bit of a side track but for the concerns of the SCHSL freestyle and Greco Roman wrestling fall under the olympic exception when it comes to contact with the athletes as well as are considered two completely different sports than anything that SCHSL offer, not to mention when you charter a usa wrestling club it provides a very affordable option to insure the building or site as well, and by affordable I mean any high school coach or program could handle it no problem)
6)The reason there were kids on the team with little to zero previous freestyle/greco tournaments is because 50% of the kids on the junior team were "Cavemen" and I had been pushing the international styles and these tournaments on them or emphasizing the importance of them with the training they were getting for months(in my chartered club practices)
7)Sbutler are you part of Georgia or part of Sc? You say "we" when talking about everything that you think needs to be done so I am assuming you are Sc then, and would like to help/volunteer/organize some of these training sites or chartered clubs and practices in the lower state.
8)If you think that a 3 day mandatory camp before departure is too "demanding" then i guess we have completely different views of what type of dedication and sacrifice this sport demands at every level.
8)What has been keeping the lower state and its coaches from providing proper training and getting kids down there ready and interested? That is entirely on the lower state and the coaches, parents, athletes to create. (I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN OPENING A SECOND CAVEMAN LOCATION SOON AND THE LOWER STATE WOULD BE GREAT IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TALK FURTHER ABOUT IT)
9)By no means is scusa perfect, or even efficient currently, but the only way to get it to where we ALL want it is to quit talking about what everyone else needs to be doing or what we should be doing and charter clubs, provide training, get kids to wrestle freestyle and greco in the summer not folkstyle.
10)I will end with this, anyone that is reading this saying #Dumbdale don't know what he is talking about kids shouldn't be wrestling freestyle and greco in the summer they should be wrestling folkstyle, you are the biggest problem this state has right now with moving forward and evolving. Do some statistical research of how many kids wrestling at the division 1 level or more importantly qualifying for the division 1 national tournament not only wrestled freestyle and greco but participated either in fargo or national duals. Or think about your top 5 favorite or greatest wrestlers of all time......got them........they all wrestled freestyle or greco, and i would hope that we as a state would like to think that somewhere walking around right now yes in south carolina there is a wrestler that could someday wear that USA singlet and run a circle around that mat with the American Flag.

"If you build it they will come!!"""

p.s. xoxoxoxoxoxoxo wildgreco i miss you and we should catch up!!!!! Still waiting on that phone call.......

 

[LowcountryWrestlingFan]

Coach Goodale I agree with everything that you wrote, except the part of SCUSAW doing everything that they can. My biggest complaint is I feel like they do not do a good job of drumming up participation. Whether that is their piss poor web presence, or the confusion with in state tournaments this season, or the lack or presence during SCHSL season to get the best kids involved. All of those things are true, and do play a part in changing the culture.

I believe that you are moving things in the right direction with everything you are doing. While I don't agree with SButlers incessant sucking up to GA, they do provide results, albeit in a much larger populated state, with larger metro areas to pull from. I think our SCUSAW needs to solicit idea from other neighboring states (FL, GA, NC, TN) and implement the ideas that may work for our state. Now is the time for change. Our state is growing, and we can move the needle if people want to. I believe that the people on the board want what is best for our kids and our state, I am just not sure that they know how to get there.

 

[Jasonwilkins]

Sometimes things are said the wrong way. The email could have said "had" but if kids were really interested in competing, questions should have been asked. I know kids had prior commitments and couldn't attend 5 days and they still participated on the Duals team.
Don't call RH upstate, people up here consider us outcast from Charlotte...lol

 

[SButler]

Again, there are chartered clubs in the Lower State and Coaches that run Freestyle Practices.

A name has already been put out there in my previous post, so it's not a secret, and this individual is more then capable of preparing Lowcountry/Lower State kids to compete in Olympic Styles, and this person is willing to " Get his hands dirty".

I'm pretty certain that if kids in the State could train regionally, participation would improve. It's not difficult for everyone to meet at location prior to travel, so that should have no influence on where kids train.


And as previously discussed if SCUSAW was more organized, professional, etc more HS Coaches would support the efforts. It's going to take an EFFORT by SCUSAW to build that with the coaches. One way is to have the right people involved. One of the guys who I know could help with that has already been named.

 

[SButler]

Sometimes things are said the wrong way. The email could have said "had" but if kids were really interested in competing, questions should have been asked. I know kids had prior commitments and couldn't attend 5 days and they still participated on the Duals team.
Don't call RH upstate, people up here consider us outcast from Charlotte...lol

Anything north of Orangeburg is Upper State for Lowcountry Folks!!

 

[Jasonwilkins]

I'm still confused about training facilities. Bailey does 90% of his training at his home club, Darkhorse. Doesn't stop him from wrestling with SCUSA in the summer.

 

[revfrank4]

I'm still confused about training facilities. Bailey does 90% of his training at his home club, Darkhorse. Doesn't stop him from wrestling with SCUSA in the summer.

True. Jacob trains at Charleston Wrestling Training Center, hosted at Bishop England, formerly at the Citadel. Marshall Haas, an assistant at the Citadel, trains Olympic style as soon as high school season ends. I know Soda City is in Columbia. Not sure if they train in Olympic style or not. There are regional training centers available.

 

[Jasonwilkins]

I'm still confused about training facilities. Bailey does 90% of his training at his home club, Darkhorse. Doesn't stop him from wrestling with SCUSA in the summer.

Let me clarify, 90% not including high school practice. Don't need no trouble on the home front ...haha

 

[CavemanMMA]

So what is keeping you guys from getting in training and practices/preparation for tournaments in the lower state then sbutler??? If i can better understand where you are coming from or what the problems are I can better assist in trying to be a solution.

 

[SButler]

Maybe something I said projected the wrong issue. This isn't about can my son or anyone practice in the Lower State, of course they can and there are options. My comments were about how you get more kids participating in SCUSAW. Specifically focused on Duals and Fargo prep. Specifically centered on the need for SCUSAW to develop a broader strategy for participation. My son can train with Brantley Hooks etc down here that isn't the point. If he wanted to be on SCUSAW dual team and needed to attend some practices/mini camps etc, then having coaches regionally placed in the state to oversee that would be more effective.


That would allow more exposure for SCUSAW and increase the number of kids who not only TRAIN(because there were several doing FS/GR training at Fort D this offseason, with Brantley, Young and coaches from Fort D) but also do the Duals and Fargo. That is my point.

Now this area still needs a place where kids from several schools/counties can train consistently together without relying on using the school gym availability etc, but that wasn't the point of my posts in this thread.

 

[CavemanMMA]

My point is that it is on you guys, specifically those that obviously see the issues and needs because they post on here, to charter clubs/run practices/participate in the tournaments/promote and advocate for USA Wrestling. I agree in that we need more training options and good coaches pushing USA in the lowcountry but that is obviously on the lowcountry to create unless someone can assist me from down there in opening a second location because I am more than open and willing when it comes to that option. You have kind of contradicted yourself a little when it comes to the pre tournament training camps? Are you saying it is too much to ask for or expect all of the tournament or team participants to meet for a 2 or three day camp in the same place at the same time prior to departure? Because if you are then i disagree with that completely. Every state does it and that isn't even just including the successful ones. In my humble opinion the coaches and athletes participating need to be together for those 2 or 3 days so that they are all on the same page can fine tune together and even become a team before the competitions. Sbutler what part can you play or are you willing to be a part of in order to try and create these improvements that you point out regularly need to happen? Are you willing to be part of the improvements and solutions or are you just here to point them out to us.

 

[SButler]

I think a 2 day type camp as a team is fine, anything leading up to that can be done regionally.

I've done my time going against the grain here. I see the constant question about who is willing to help....... the funny thing is this same leadership turned guys like Ragan away for years.... A Big 12 Champion and Accomplished Freestyle wrestler. But everybody step up and hop on board, don't stand on the sideline etc...

The reality is the leadership at USAW doesn't really want real help, that would involve some dimished control, that's just the go to when people's frustration boils over.

It's not rocket science. Fargo will be over soon, SCUSAW should already have planned a trip to something like USAW Pre Season Nationals in Cedar Falls. The information with itinerary and pricing should be out to all coaches, emails, social media etc..optional uniform packages for those who wish to purchase with artwork completed by someone like Cliff at Compound/build excitement.

That takes about 3 hours to organize. And if it is organized early, there might be some solid participation. SCUSAW should target 3-4 Folkstyle events/trips.... one key way to help participation for Olympic Styles is for SCUSAW to build relationships with these kids during Folkstyle season. I've sent these thoughts in detail to a SCUSAW member months ago via email and well, they read it, I think it's far as it got!

 

[wildgreco]

Okay I am going to try as hard as I can to answer the questions that I can as well as give some insight (as well as my opinion like always haha) without going off on tangents or making it confusing.

To start, thank you for the kind words that some of you had to say about me and working with the Junior National Teams, as I am not used to that sort of response on here haha. It was a privilege getting to work with all of the kids the past three or so weeks with the schoolboys, cadets, and juniors all spending sleeping and practicing at the cave. The groups of kids that came through and then that I also traveled with were hungry to learn and work hard, they listened, responded, and made adjustments during the camps and the competitions and i believe we saw steady improvement out of all of them along the way.

Next Sbutler, I will try and respond to some of the things that you said one at a time.
1)Thanks for giving Mansfield and Hart props and recognition for their accomplishments this weekend with Hart suffering only one loss in Greco and going undefeated in Freestyle putting him on the All Tournament Team, and Mansfield being one of only 9 wrestlers in the entire tournament to go undefeated in both styles making both All Tournament Teams. (just surprised it wasn't followed up with a but georgia did better hahaha jk jk)
2)As far as Scusa being more realistic and utilizing the coaches in different parts of the state, I can assure you that Scusa is all for using and benefiting from coaches from every corner of the state and as many as we can possibly get involved and helping. There is no need to have secrets on here or even hide behind screen names (I'm not gonna mention any names or anything cough cough Wildgreco) if you have coaches that want to be a part of it or more actively involved then I would encourage you to go ahead and put it out there for all to see because not only will kids and parents in that area seek him out because of it but also it makes sure that he is actively stepping forward and ready to get his hands dirty as well.
3)Now as far as making training and camps more accessible to those in the lower state, I am not sure exactly I understand just what it is that you are wanting or saying here? For starters 3 days of camp prior to leaving on a trip is by no means enough training or sufficient training to prepare for a tournament of the national or regional level, and the reason the camps are held in the upper state for the short prep before leaving is because well, all of the tournaments we take teams to are NORTH. It would not be cost effective or time efficient to hold them in the lower state and have kids/coaches drive hours south and then turn around to back track. By no means does everything have to "Run through Greenville", but most of the wrestlers we have participating on these teams are from the upstate or even greenville area, as well as the coaches that are willing to Volunteer their time, facilities, and other things have happened to be in the upper state. If you do in fact have some capable and willing freestyle/greco coaches wherever you are in the lowcountry then charter a USA club and start holding practices. (Now this is going to be a bit of a side track but for the concerns of the SCHSL freestyle and Greco Roman wrestling fall under the olympic exception when it comes to contact with the athletes as well as are considered two completely different sports than anything that SCHSL offer, not to mention when you charter a usa wrestling club it provides a very affordable option to insure the building or site as well, and by affordable I mean any high school coach or program could handle it no problem)
6)The reason there were kids on the team with little to zero previous freestyle/greco tournaments is because 50% of the kids on the junior team were "Cavemen" and I had been pushing the international styles and these tournaments on them or emphasizing the importance of them with the training they were getting for months(in my chartered club practices)
7)Sbutler are you part of Georgia or part of Sc? You say "we" when talking about everything that you think needs to be done so I am assuming you are Sc then, and would like to help/volunteer/organize some of these training sites or chartered clubs and practices in the lower state.
8)If you think that a 3 day mandatory camp before departure is too "demanding" then i guess we have completely different views of what type of dedication and sacrifice this sport demands at every level.
8)What has been keeping the lower state and its coaches from providing proper training and getting kids down there ready and interested? That is entirely on the lower state and the coaches, parents, athletes to create. (I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN OPENING A SECOND CAVEMAN LOCATION SOON AND THE LOWER STATE WOULD BE GREAT IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TALK FURTHER ABOUT IT)
9)By no means is scusa perfect, or even efficient currently, but the only way to get it to where we ALL want it is to quit talking about what everyone else needs to be doing or what we should be doing and charter clubs, provide training, get kids to wrestle freestyle and greco in the summer not folkstyle.
10)I will end with this, anyone that is reading this saying #Dumbdale don't know what he is talking about kids shouldn't be wrestling freestyle and greco in the summer they should be wrestling folkstyle, you are the biggest problem this state has right now with moving forward and evolving. Do some statistical research of how many kids wrestling at the division 1 level or more importantly qualifying for the division 1 national tournament not only wrestled freestyle and greco but participated either in fargo or national duals. Or think about your top 5 favorite or greatest wrestlers of all time......got them........they all wrestled freestyle or greco, and i would hope that we as a state would like to think that somewhere walking around right now yes in south carolina there is a wrestler that could someday wear that USA singlet and run a circle around that mat with the American Flag.

"If you build it they will come!!"""

p.s. xoxoxoxoxoxoxo wildgreco i miss you and we should catch up!!!!! Still waiting on that phone call.......

Ha ha ha ha. Do you really miss me? Are you sure? I guess you haven't learned your lesson.
How can you take a partial team to junior national duals? It's obvious you didn't try very hard to fill all the weights. You are working for the entire state, right? There shouldn't have been any reason to not take a full team with backups. Especially if you're working hard for the entire state. Not just the upstate. A lot less people are falling for your BS #dumbdale.