State Legion finals format
- Thread starter Dak43
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Believe it's suppose to be a game at a host site for Upper and lower state on July 23, if I remember correctly the winner of leagues 5/6 cross bracket host the winner of leagues 7/8 cross bracket for upper state. I don't know the set up for who host who in lower state, but is same set up. Then July 25 the two losing teams play an elimination game and two winning teams play. July 26 is the second elimination game. Then July 27th is the final game and if needed second game to crown the State Champion.
Though don't quote me on it. I do know that whichever host this year, the other host next year.
Though don't quote me on it. I do know that whichever host this year, the other host next year.
Thanks. That sounds like what I just heard today. Also heard that League III/IV, that play each other twice each in the regular season, will play each other in 2 rounds in Lower State playoffs with 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 in round 1. The winners of the opening round series will meet in round 2 to decide which team goes to state. If that is case, League III/IV will automatically have a rep in final 4 in Columbia.
Ok so have more news on that. 1v 2 of regions. League 1 and 2 is region 1, league 3 and 4 is region 2, league 5 and 6 is region 3, and league 7 and 8 is region 4. 2 5 game serious to crown region champs. This year region 1 and region 3 winners host first game at their fields for state tournament. Then the earlier post applies. I hope this helps clarify some of the Senior League playoffs up.
Not a fan only having 2 teams make the playoffs. I think giving more teams the opportunity to play more baseball and compete for something is whats best. Between Inman, Spartanburg, and Gaffney one of those teams is going to get screwed.
I heard gaffney has 8 games left and spartanburg didn't start the season with their dorman kids took 1-2 losses. Spartanburg and Gaffney have 4 games left a piece. That is basically like their mini 4 game playoffs to decide another spot!
I heard gaffney has 8 games left and spartanburg didn't start the season with their dorman kids took 1-2 losses. Spartanburg and Gaffney have 4 games left a piece. That is basically like their mini 4 game playoffs to decide another spot!
I think Spartanburg and Gaffney have 3 games left. But don't cry any tears for Gaffney. They CHOSE their path. More than one team is screwed in all of this having 7-8 games remaining. And part of that is due to Gaffney CHOOSING not to play for an entire week when they had games scheduled well in advance. So, my question here is: If you are an opposing coach that has numerous games to play/make up, would you not play the games that were rained out as priority and leave Gaffney to wonder what if? I would. Gaffney may have to/should be forced to forfeit the games that they walked away from, hoping everyone else would bow down and just accommodate them later in the season. How are they supposed to squeeze that many games in over the next 5 days? Ain't playing on Sunday. Ain't playing on July 4th. Not to mention that most of these teams don't have enough pitching for 5 games in 5 days, much less 7-8 games over that same time span. And that is assuming that there aren't any more rain-outs. If you CHOOSE to not play games that are on the schedule that is fine. You should have played with the kids you had available and deal with it like everyone else all season. Spartanburg is a very good team that missed some key kids early. But they stepped up, like everyone EXCEPT Gaffney and played with what they had. Have to respect that.
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Was told at game last night that Leagues III & IV were to have been paired with each other in the playoffs and since they were combined into one region, the playoff brackets would remain as they were. That is why Leagues III/IV will play each other twice each in the regular season and then, are paired against each other in the 2 rounds of the playoffs.
I understand the benefits of more teams, but I also understand being an athletic director of the downfalls too. The past 2 season, we were slotted for 16 team playoffs. I imagine in the upper state, we've average 3 or 4 teams bowing out and forfeiting their first round series. This in my opinion gave those winning teams an unfair advantage to teams that had to play their series, because State tournament seeds were based first off of win/loss records and then run differentials. Due to the forfeits, those teams picked up a 3-0 and 27 run differential right off the back. That being said, as we could be the odd team sitting out, if we don't handle our business, I understand why some want more teams in. I would say that these teams should worry about handling their business as I've mention to our players, and let the cards fall where they will. We've played with as few as 12 or 13 players this season due to beach week, but we knew that going in. If teams aren't willing to hash out scheduling conflicts, that's on them. I know League 8 went through at least 8 schedule revisions, if not 9 before we had a schedule in place that the whole league agreed on that included games during beach week so we didn't get jammed up at the end of the season. It sucks, I know. Though I also know we all have to play the cards we're given, with the players that we've chosen.
Those coaches were really nice to gaffney and letting them reschedule! They could of made them forfeit!
ALBPost20 I agree with you on everyone is in the same boat and has to play with what they got! You know going into the season only the top 2 will get it and you have to take care of your own business.
It will be interesting to see if any teams bow out this year and if they let the 3rd team play or they just give the other team a forfeit!
I'm being told this is a one year thing with columbia! Don't be surprised to be back at Sumter next year!
ALBPost20 I agree with you on everyone is in the same boat and has to play with what they got! You know going into the season only the top 2 will get it and you have to take care of your own business.
It will be interesting to see if any teams bow out this year and if they let the 3rd team play or they just give the other team a forfeit!
I'm being told this is a one year thing with columbia! Don't be surprised to be back at Sumter next year!
That was not what was said at the state meeting in March, it was said to be a 2 year thing. If that has changed, it hasn't been relayed back yet. I know Sumter was not happy, but on the other hand you don't get any teams with a free ride to the state tournament. As for the bowing out, I think their would be less of any at all this year since a lot of these 16 teams would be your teams that battle for one of the 8 spots every year anyways. Just my opinion on that.
We'll see what happen. I'm not against it. I just know that we've been screwed out of a home game at the state tournament due to Sumter getting the night cap game that they host, even though we were the higher seed team. I don't mind them getting the night cap game, but home team should be based as it is in all games in which the higher seed team is the home team. I'm personally not for the automatic bid either, whether it benefits us or Sumter since we've hosted before. To me it should be the best 8 teams, and if Sumter is eliminated before the tournament that is on them. I've also heard that Sumter was able to use their own umpires that they used all season versus having to play with pool umpires that the American Legion has chosen for umpires. I won't say it's unfair, but it does give a bit of home cooking to them. If we all played on the same level playing field, I wouldn't have any issue with it being back in Sumter. I have no problem with Columbia, because it's in the center of the state and less travel for us. It also is on a neutral site, which means no automatic bid. Just my opinion with information that was given to me about the previous state tournaments.
Cohaze I don't care where the tourney is. My big thing is going back to the older format where more teams make the playoffs! Give kids and teams more to play for.
This is my own opinon: I think some teams (Not all) that don't make the playoffs this year may sway some kids from playing the following year.
Teams making the state tourney this year will not be given money for food or free hotels. To me a state tournament should be a experience. All the teams staying there experiencing it. Teams this year will just drive back and forth.
Plus does this way really get our state tournament winner ready for a double elimination tourney at asheboro?
Now I never thought the host should pay for the hotel or food! That should be on each legion team!
This is my own opinon: I think some teams (Not all) that don't make the playoffs this year may sway some kids from playing the following year.
Teams making the state tourney this year will not be given money for food or free hotels. To me a state tournament should be a experience. All the teams staying there experiencing it. Teams this year will just drive back and forth.
Plus does this way really get our state tournament winner ready for a double elimination tourney at asheboro?
Now I never thought the host should pay for the hotel or food! That should be on each legion team!
SO the comment was made earlier about wanting more teams in the playoffs... yet we've had one team already forfeit the rest of their series. Tonight was due to injuries to their pitching staff, and not having anyone available. Though they didn't have any intention of playing more than a 3 game series due to the lack of players on Thursday and Friday. I won't mention the team, but will ask how does that look on American Legion Baseball? This part of the reason, along with an issues with what happen with a team not putting their roster in and teams manipulating the schedule to their advantage are reasons why American Legion Baseball struggles. Another team could have been in place of this one in the playoffs from the same league, and probably would have played the whole series. Instead we have same results as all the past seasons.
Personally, I think this year's format is a big step forward. There are only a handful of teams with any realistic chance of winning the tournament, or even a series. Might as well eliminate the others up front and avoid all (or most) of the forfeits. Yeah, you will occasionally have a bubble team like Inman that misses out. But, it's hard to feel sorry for teams like that when their players don't commit to play the whole season.
I really would be shocked if they don't go back to sumter next year! Albpost20 I feel your pain because you have to play against those guys year in and year out in your league! Those are the repeat offenders!
This is what I worry about! Lets pick a team say Florence. If they keep the same format and Florence finishes last..... year in and year out for years........will that make some teams fold because players don't want to come out because there team will never make the playoffs.
The state cares about the number of teams in the state! The more teams the better they look!
This is what I worry about! Lets pick a team say Florence. If they keep the same format and Florence finishes last..... year in and year out for years........will that make some teams fold because players don't want to come out because there team will never make the playoffs.
The state cares about the number of teams in the state! The more teams the better they look!
So what you're telling me is that State cares more about Quantity over Quality. I don't necessarily agree with that, but what do I know. I'll throw out two scenarios for you though, and want to see how you feel if your team is the one that is affected by the outcome in a hypothetical way. Scenario one and I'll use last year's Greenwood team. We were an ok team and hypothetically we are the host team for the tournament, as Sumter would be when the tournament goes back there (as we know that Sumter isn't always one of the top 8 teams, just like Greenwood isn't either). We get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs, but we are still guaranteed a spot at the state tournament. Now your team has to play a one game playoff with another team and loses, and misses out on the state tournament because of the guaranteed spot for the host team. Is that fair to you all, even though you are one of the top 8 teams in the state, to have to miss out because an ok host team gets a guaranteed spot? Second Scenario, and this happen 2 years ago. Host team (Sumter) gets in a bench clearing brawl with another playoff team, which breaks the code of sportmanship, and neither team gets tossed out of the playoffs because they are the host. Instead they both get a slap on the wrist by having to each forfeit a game and have to now play a best of 3 series. Is that fair that if it's anyone else, in a clear code of sportsmanship that they would more than likely be done for the playoffs? Also for your quantity over quality. Is it good for American legion baseball to have the extra teams in the playoffs, if they're going to forfeit away the series and pretty much give a team an automatic bye to the next round? And a hefty run differential as a tiebreaker for state seedings? I'm just curious what your opinions are on all of this, I personally am not in favor of a host team. That's one of the reason I'm in favor of the new format, as it gets the best 4 teams in the state matched up. We could do the best 8 teams in the same manner, but if a team doesn't have the pitching then they don't have it. It doesn't matter whether it is the State, Regional, or National tournament. In my honest opinion, the coaches just have to be wise in how they use their pitching, and know how to work the system to get the best outcome out of it for the argument that the new format doesn't get us ready for regional tournament play.
I 100% think the state cares only about two things! 1. The number of teams that sign up. 2. Having the best team make it to the regional and then to the world series.
Scenario 1. I don't have a problem with it. If the team is going to put on a whole tournament and occur all costs then yes I think they should get in. It's risky to host because like we saw last year when sumter is 0-2 they lose money.
Scenario 2 It's not just that incident and I agree with you on that. Rules are not enforced. Teams this year needed their schedule changed for multiple beach weeks. Those teams should of had to forfeit. I know of 2 teams that had to do that!
My opinon is that if teams forfeit during the playoffs they are on a 1 year non playoff ban. Why do we keep letting these teams back in when they do the same thing year after year. Suspend those teams or put that idea in their mind and those teams won't forfeit!
Scenario 1. I don't have a problem with it. If the team is going to put on a whole tournament and occur all costs then yes I think they should get in. It's risky to host because like we saw last year when sumter is 0-2 they lose money.
Scenario 2 It's not just that incident and I agree with you on that. Rules are not enforced. Teams this year needed their schedule changed for multiple beach weeks. Those teams should of had to forfeit. I know of 2 teams that had to do that!
My opinon is that if teams forfeit during the playoffs they are on a 1 year non playoff ban. Why do we keep letting these teams back in when they do the same thing year after year. Suspend those teams or put that idea in their mind and those teams won't forfeit!
I like your thought on the 1 year playoff banned, and I'd like to see it also go a step further with teams that habitually violate rules such as using illegal players get a one year legion baseball banned. I know you're going to say the state wants more teams, so they won't enforce that. Though we all know something needs to change and be made an example out of such teams to discourage it in the future.
I do agree that such teams, if they have had input in the scheduling process, should be force to play the schedule as presented once it's official. They shouldn't be able to manipulate the schedule for reasons that you have posted if the schedule was agreed upon at the start of the season. In such case, the should be forfeits unless the other team is willing to work with them. The opposing team shouldn't be placed in a bind do to a team purposely manipulating the schedule.
Now that being said for the one year playoff ban, the bottom dwellers that don't have interest in travelling won't be bother as they normally forfeit anyways. My suggestion would maybe be a 12 team bracket. Have 5-12 play the first week, then have the winners play 1-4 the second week. Base the seeding for state off of the second week of action. Win/Loss record first, then run differential. I would still allow the host team to have the night game, but I wouldn't give them home team spot if they are the lower seeded team. I would play it like any other seeding pairing. Just my opinion, if we give a team an automatic bid.
That also being said, with a host team being an auto bid. You may not get the best team going to the regional and nationals. If the 4th team that gets knocked out do to the auto bid, is the better team and could have made a run at state. I know this doesn't happen often, but just something that could happen.
I do agree that such teams, if they have had input in the scheduling process, should be force to play the schedule as presented once it's official. They shouldn't be able to manipulate the schedule for reasons that you have posted if the schedule was agreed upon at the start of the season. In such case, the should be forfeits unless the other team is willing to work with them. The opposing team shouldn't be placed in a bind do to a team purposely manipulating the schedule.
Now that being said for the one year playoff ban, the bottom dwellers that don't have interest in travelling won't be bother as they normally forfeit anyways. My suggestion would maybe be a 12 team bracket. Have 5-12 play the first week, then have the winners play 1-4 the second week. Base the seeding for state off of the second week of action. Win/Loss record first, then run differential. I would still allow the host team to have the night game, but I wouldn't give them home team spot if they are the lower seeded team. I would play it like any other seeding pairing. Just my opinion, if we give a team an automatic bid.
That also being said, with a host team being an auto bid. You may not get the best team going to the regional and nationals. If the 4th team that gets knocked out do to the auto bid, is the better team and could have made a run at state. I know this doesn't happen often, but just something that could happen.
