Camden-Dreher Brawl?
- Thread starter dacoach
- Start date
I haven't heard details but what I have heard is that they were doing the hand shake walk by, coach Neal was out in front of the Camden team and action began behind him; he (Neal) WAS NOT punched as initially reported but the Principal was.
Do not know what started it or who and it doesn't matter; this is the kind of thing that usually draws expulsion from post-season play.
Do not know what started it or who and it doesn't matter; this is the kind of thing that usually draws expulsion from post-season play.
And dont forget suspensions. Every single kid that threw a punch is out. Every kid that grabbed or shoved or slung somebody is out.
Unfortunately, the high school league set prescedence back when Wilson ad Lake City had their brawl. That came between Summerville's fight at the hand shake and - further back - Marlboro County on the last play.
If they have film, the HSL will suspensed every kid it gets ajersey number on. And if the officials were still on thefield, they can provide numbers as well.
Glad Jimmy Neal wasnt hit or hurt. So sorr to hear about the principal.
This has all the makings of a season ending event.
Unfortunately, the high school league set prescedence back when Wilson ad Lake City had their brawl. That came between Summerville's fight at the hand shake and - further back - Marlboro County on the last play.
If they have film, the HSL will suspensed every kid it gets ajersey number on. And if the officials were still on thefield, they can provide numbers as well.
Glad Jimmy Neal wasnt hit or hurt. So sorr to hear about the principal.
This has all the makings of a season ending event.
Exhibit a on why the post game handshake is one of the dumbest things in sports. I'm all for sportsmanship but after a game innwhich two teams tried to rip each others heads off, why would we freaking have them shake hands? I've been saying for years the handshake should be before the game.
As of 4:30, initial suspensions handed out by SCHSL to individual players on top of any punishment the schools already handed out. A Dreher follower told me that around 5 are suspended from school and the team, and a few more will have one game suspensions. No word on if Camden has any being sat down for next game or not. Also, there is no decision yet on the two teams' status going forward in the playoffs. It is widely understood that a large majority of both teams' players did exactly what they are supposed to do in that situation, grab a teammate and walk away and let the head coach sort it out, and parents need to stay off the field!
Wow.
From 2 eyewitness accounts there was AT LEAST 30 kids punching, kicking and swinging helmets. Let's say Dreher loses 10 and Camden loses 10... Where are the rest?
No ban from playoffs, didn't even see a fine....
Oh, how things have changed.
I heard part of the problem was the groups on film made it hard to determine what was happening in each clister. The refs lef the field without trying to record numbers or events. Also heard other things but wont repeat here because... well it would be pointless.
We see Jerome is done. "Possible future sanctions"..... tell us another funny line.
On with the games!
From 2 eyewitness accounts there was AT LEAST 30 kids punching, kicking and swinging helmets. Let's say Dreher loses 10 and Camden loses 10... Where are the rest?
No ban from playoffs, didn't even see a fine....
Oh, how things have changed.
I heard part of the problem was the groups on film made it hard to determine what was happening in each clister. The refs lef the field without trying to record numbers or events. Also heard other things but wont repeat here because... well it would be pointless.
We see Jerome is done. "Possible future sanctions"..... tell us another funny line.
On with the games!
This appears to be a slap on the wrist type deal. I wonder what type of political ploy allowed Jerome and his minions to whitewash this one clean? In my opinion, post game stuff warrants stiffer penalties because the game is over, coaches are on the scene, and the prospect of two kids locking up after a play is over.
As I stated in my column this morning in The State, there has to be set protocol; for instance, if "X" number of players are involved in the incident from a team, then "A" is the penalty. That could include season suspension for the involved players, as well as post-season suspension for the team if a certain number of players are involved.
I do feel that it is wrong to penalize an entire team if we're only talking about one or two players, but when it is a larger number of players, the team has to suffer the consequences.
I do feel that it is wrong to penalize an entire team if we're only talking about one or two players, but when it is a larger number of players, the team has to suffer the consequences.
I agree with most of what you say,but what if there is definitive proof that one side starts a fight? Is it not up to the powers that be to take that into consideration? What if one side makes more of an effort to stop an altercation? Would it not be conceivable that a team which has nothing to lose or is trying to help another team would deliberately start a fight to get a player removed for an upcoming game?With the logic being used ,a player could be targeted and then antagonized into defending himself and if he does,then he is done.Just saying.
Very true....
... but every District I've ever worked in or had my children attend had a similar rule. Let's say your son is sitting at the cafeteria table eating and minding his own business. Up comes an idiot who starts punching him in the back of the head. 99% of the time your son would jump up and fight back/defend himself. But do you not realize that your son would be suspended for 3-8 days (depending on the district)? How fair is that?
What they would prefer is your son remain seated and take the beating until proper adminstrators arrive, I guess.
But, guess what? Life ain't fair.
I think JB's idea has some merit. This whole "case by case basis" just opens up a whole can of biasness. Remember the Summerville fight at the hand shake? Old Papa Bear told the HSL it was nothing.... and so... it was nothing. The video that all the Lowcountry news stations showed was a brawl with cops and coaches holding on for dear life.... but, to the HSL it was just a disagreement.
It's all "who you know" stuff... but, then again, that's LIFE, too, right?
... but every District I've ever worked in or had my children attend had a similar rule. Let's say your son is sitting at the cafeteria table eating and minding his own business. Up comes an idiot who starts punching him in the back of the head. 99% of the time your son would jump up and fight back/defend himself. But do you not realize that your son would be suspended for 3-8 days (depending on the district)? How fair is that?
What they would prefer is your son remain seated and take the beating until proper adminstrators arrive, I guess.
But, guess what? Life ain't fair.
I think JB's idea has some merit. This whole "case by case basis" just opens up a whole can of biasness. Remember the Summerville fight at the hand shake? Old Papa Bear told the HSL it was nothing.... and so... it was nothing. The video that all the Lowcountry news stations showed was a brawl with cops and coaches holding on for dear life.... but, to the HSL it was just a disagreement.
It's all "who you know" stuff... but, then again, that's LIFE, too, right?
I agree with most of what you say, but what if there is definitive proof that one side starts a fight?
What definite proof would there be? Yes, I've been told the Dreher players started the pushing and shoving on the video, but could that had been due to some verbal jabs thrown by a player or two from the Camden that may have" lit the match"? Not sure, but that is what the SCHSL will be investigating in their decision. Both teams had players jawing at each other most of the game and let their emotions get the best of them at the end.
The Refs, from several folks I spoke with, are the responsible party for letting the game get out of hand. Maybe, there should be some discipline for those guys. They had the opportunity to call coaches aside and ask for some control or flags would fly. I'd like to know how many personal foul penalties were called.
This post was edited on 10/23 1:42 PM by Low-n-Slow
What definite proof would there be? Yes, I've been told the Dreher players started the pushing and shoving on the video, but could that had been due to some verbal jabs thrown by a player or two from the Camden that may have" lit the match"? Not sure, but that is what the SCHSL will be investigating in their decision. Both teams had players jawing at each other most of the game and let their emotions get the best of them at the end.
The Refs, from several folks I spoke with, are the responsible party for letting the game get out of hand. Maybe, there should be some discipline for those guys. They had the opportunity to call coaches aside and ask for some control or flags would fly. I'd like to know how many personal foul penalties were called.
This post was edited on 10/23 1:42 PM by Low-n-Slow
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the officiating.There were punches thrown, that are shown on film during the game, by some of the main ones who took part in the postgame mess .If the cheap shots had been taken care of during the game,the other nonsense probably would not have happened.
Just announced - One year postseason ban for both Camden and Dreher and both schools on a one year probation. Fines are also forthcoming.
Looks like 2 very crappy teams will now get an undeserved playoff spot: Lower Richland & Richland Northeast
Probably not. Only one of the 2 will get in. In AAA the 4th seed is not an automatic because there are conferences with 8 teams. This region only has 6, so if there is a team with better record from one of the 8 team regions, that team will get the at-large.
The KCSD has appealed the probation of the postseason and jamboree ban. It's really sad that a team is punished equally for defending themselves as is the team who started the fight. I guess the HSL is sending the message that if you are surrounded by 3 to 4 guys who's intent is to attack you that you take it like a man and don't fight back. And don't even think of going to your teammates rescue. Stay where you are and watch him get pummeled. The HSL is a complete joke.
RCSD1 has appealed the team probation for Dreher as well. The 8 players suspended for either 1 or 2 games is accepted and further discipline was taken by the school against several of these players. The fine is not being appealed either.
Until the video is released, if they ever do that, we are speculating on how the different participants were perceived by the HSL as to the severity of their involvement. Yes, one group from the visitors may have started the altercation, but it is widely known that they were responding to a couple of the home team players who continued mouthing off while handshakes were being exchanged. What may have started as a self defense reaction by those Camden participants after the initial confrontation may have turned into some active retaliation captured by the video.
I've seen several altercations over the years in FB games, and the majority usually end up with some bruises, hurt hands and damaged egos, but very few serious injuries. If you keep your helmet on, you shouldn't get hit any worse than you did in the game. In fact, let the other gut take a swing at you and offer your helmet as a target, then smile as he cringes and rubs his hurt hand. Then walk away, you'll be respected as a bigger man for it. I'm sorry the principal got the worst of it, that is a complete lack of respect for whoever did that to him and I hope they are held accountable.
Hasn't been mentioned, but maybe this brawl might have been averted a couple of minutes earlier when Camden has a first and goal with a minute left and Dreher out of timeouts down by 10 pts, game basically over. Why not take a knee and let the clock run out. Instead you get a team scoring a TD, Dreher players getting angry and bowed up, raising the bar on the tension level, then Dreher scoring a TD on the last play with more shoving and finger pointing. You know the rest of the story.
By the way, both teams have instituted a new policy of no more post game handshakes, only coaches now.
Until the video is released, if they ever do that, we are speculating on how the different participants were perceived by the HSL as to the severity of their involvement. Yes, one group from the visitors may have started the altercation, but it is widely known that they were responding to a couple of the home team players who continued mouthing off while handshakes were being exchanged. What may have started as a self defense reaction by those Camden participants after the initial confrontation may have turned into some active retaliation captured by the video.
I've seen several altercations over the years in FB games, and the majority usually end up with some bruises, hurt hands and damaged egos, but very few serious injuries. If you keep your helmet on, you shouldn't get hit any worse than you did in the game. In fact, let the other gut take a swing at you and offer your helmet as a target, then smile as he cringes and rubs his hurt hand. Then walk away, you'll be respected as a bigger man for it. I'm sorry the principal got the worst of it, that is a complete lack of respect for whoever did that to him and I hope they are held accountable.
Hasn't been mentioned, but maybe this brawl might have been averted a couple of minutes earlier when Camden has a first and goal with a minute left and Dreher out of timeouts down by 10 pts, game basically over. Why not take a knee and let the clock run out. Instead you get a team scoring a TD, Dreher players getting angry and bowed up, raising the bar on the tension level, then Dreher scoring a TD on the last play with more shoving and finger pointing. You know the rest of the story.
By the way, both teams have instituted a new policy of no more post game handshakes, only coaches now.
