ADVERTISEMENT

State Tournament

J

JYMF

Three Star Prospect
Dec 9, 2001
732
24
18
Does anyone know how much time remains in the contract between schsl and Anderson civic center concerning the state tournament? It's a nice venue and better than some we have had in the past, but it obviously needs to change. The event has grown and become much more competitive. Fans need seating, wrestlers need warm up area and general space, as well as showers, etc....

Any thoughts or input? I know we go through this every year after the event, but am curious to hear suggestions. I personally witnessed three arguments take place that I thought would lead to fist fights between spectators and people on the floor...including wrestlers who were just trying to warm up and go on the mat for the next match. Event is way too costly for families traveling where lodging, admission, food, etc...are concerned. Felt bad for the elderly grandmother trying to watch her grandson get pummeled and eliminated in about 30 seconds of the 1st round of consos.

Thoughts?
 
The SCHSL will keep it in Anderson as long as Anderson wants it because the SCHSL is a lowest-hanging-fruit type organization. If you have $30,000+ you can buy it from them and have it anywhere you would like.
 
Schsl.They have the right to manage events it as they see fit, as they is are a resource utilized and depended upon by the sc dept of education. The league has a very difficult task in managing all of the athletes and events. However; also has an obligation to the member schools and governing bodies made up of public employees to continue the growth, advancement, and opportunity of the sports and athletes. Those governing bodies are the driving voice of what happens. Obviously things do not happen overnight, but through the advisement and direction of superintendents, principals, coaches, teachers, etc...change can be made.

I am asking for suggestions and thoughts for the future, obviously after the contract with the Anderson CC expires.
 
Well $$ or not the state of SC wrestlers need a better shake then they are getting now. Its true they have no where to warm up before a match, barely enough room to stand on a small corner of the mat. Concession stands had a 20 minute wait. It was literally 30 people in line with 2 people working it. Bath rooms have 4 urnials and 2 stalls. I am not here complaining, I have seen this 1st hand for the last 3 years. Its really a joke. Its like having the football championship at small 1A stadium.
This post was edited on 3/1 8:39 PM by spartanburgheel15
 
Definately problem areas. What might be some suggestions for improvement relating to several areas, obviously funding, geographic location and facilities available in that area, system of qualifying, scheduling, etc....
 
I'll offer my two cents. I have been a wrestler and coach in the state tournament, but the last two years I have taken a step back and seen the sport as a fan.


A larger arena with more room for wrestlers and fans would be great. But the reality is that Anderson Civic Center was not sold out. If the wrestling community wants a larger venue, we have to be able to put butts in seats. Until we as a community earn a larger venue, this will never happen.


Could the state tournament have been better? Yes. We should have recognized the wrestlers going for 3rd/4th prior to their matches, the parade of champions could have been improved(we have seen lasers and music before), and there should be a warm up mat. But these problems could still be fixed within Anderson Civic Center.


In my opinion, the problem doesn't lie with Anderson Civic Center, but with the wrestling community as a whole. We need more media exposure, more fans at our top tournaments, and more participation in the South Carolina wrestling community.


For example, I still do not know who won the most outstanding wrestler award at the state tournament. As a fan, I left after watching the heavyweight finals(and this was after most casual fans had left). Even with my expert googling skills, I can't find out if the Socastee 120 won MOW for his epic upset, or the Fort Mill 126 won MOW for his tenacity. I know that eventually I will be able to find this information on SCMAT. But we shouldn't be relying on Mark Buford to carry the banner for SC wrestling.


On this forum, the day after the state tournament, the only discussion is this thread talking about how to improve the tournament. There is no one talking about any of the great matches, Cervenka's fourth title, the emergence of the two Fort D freshman brothers, the craziness that could have cost Alford from Fort D a title, the upset at 120, the extremely close calls some officials were forced to make, the epic double overtime 4A heavyweight match, the ridiculous amount of pins from the Bluffton 145, and much more. This forum used to have plenty of predictions and discussion about the highlights of our state. In my opinion, this needs to be improved more than anything. We need more people talking about the great wrestling in our state.


In past years, it has also been much easier to find off season tournaments online. All I can find now are tournaments in North Carolina.


JYMF- Thank you for starting this conversation. I know I haven't offered much in terms of solutions to these issues, but something needs to be done. As a community we must continue to advance wrestling in this state, and make sure the current wrestlers receive the experiences they deserve.
 
I think it all starts with the venue. I like Anderson but not worth the cost this past year. We need a place that can offer an area to have 6 safe wrestling surfaces. A definite separation of spectator and participant. Little visibility issues. I liked the 05 location in Columbia (minus the frozen mats)

McCormick and Polly do a great job but I think the Coaches Association should step and help a little more. Yes we are all focused on the wrestling at the that point but here are my suggestions

Buy 6 Tri-pod score clocks...rent them to big tournaments through out the year
A program, with pics of last years champs, state historical records and story lines for the current tournament. It does not need to be a literary masterpiece.. just enough info. Should not be hard to get to print by Tuesday morning...back for state Friday
No matter the seeding criteria each upper/lower state host should be given over all records to then pass on to Polly
Create a template to be filled out by the coaches of Finalists for introductions, lets mention going for 2nd, 3rd or 4th state titles and other accomplishments
Let's get an MC...I nominate my self to announce the intros for the finals!

Only thing about schedule I would change is start the parade of champions at 4:30 and give the awards after the completion of following match. Put the podium inside the barriers, Award to the arena and then turn for pics. Also allows for better presentation of the MOW's at the end.

Still it all will depend on the venue. Carolina Coliseum? What about Winthrop Coliseum (I think too little floor space) What kind of facilities does Coastal have? North Charleston Convention Center is huge but no seating?

My 2 cent
 
All valid points. However; not selling out does not justify keeping the venue too small. Williams Brice does not sell out for state championship football games, but schsl continues to host championships there.
Anytime when leasing a facility hosts must consider total function of the event. If facility seats 5,000 but has only one entrance, isle, and no stage area, then there are going to be problems. Flow of people and crowds must be considered. Equipment, stages of the event, and transitional changes must be considered.
Other Points...
I agree, marketing and promotion is key, and our state could and should do a better job. It can be done, but we need to utilize all of our resources. I know a sports marketing professor who loves this kind of stuff.
Don't believe Anderson CC can actually do all the things mentioned. Not without huge inconveniences to the paying spectators.
Socastee 120 won MOW, although I don't actually consider his win an upset. The kid is good and so is Clary. I was very impressed with both. Agree, Mark can not carry the load for the state in terms of getting the word out about our sport and promoting it.
Many great matches. I think it was a very strong tournament with some very intense matches.
The twins are good, but will need to get the emotions in control in order to find the kind of success that they are capable of.
160...Alford. Really tough to see him lose like that. However; the injury time in general was questionable.
Officials...seem to be a pretty solid group. The state is getting better overall, at least in terms of guys calling qualifiers and state tournament.
Stalemates...Officials need to get together on this. waiting too long to call the stalemate, and then hit the whistle just as the kid is actually coming out of the situation to actually score. call it , or let it develop.

Ideas...increase size of the tournament. Weird how some of the region tournaments are equally as big as the state tournament. Our state has gotten better and should at least go with a 12 man bracket, if not sixteen. With 12, you give the champs and runners up the byes, then seed others 5-12 based on finish at upper and lower state.
Charge the schools more for entry fees to cover costs of officials, etc... It could actually be based on a minimum amount and then a per head number of qualifiers by each school....maybe $100 base, and then $20 for each kid beyond 5.
There are a lot of kids who currently do not qualify could place top four the next weekend at state. Once had a 2 x state champ almost miss qualifying for state his junior year...scored with less than 5 seconds in third period to move on. Had a non qualifier this year lose in last 15 seconds to eventual state finalist Saturday.

Finally....Todd P and Todd M do a great job! Imagine what could be done if they had the facilities and resources.
 
Let me start by saying I really appreciate all the hard work all the volunteers put in and I am no way trying to be critical being that I can not volunteer my time. But I do have a few simple suggestions. First of all I don't think the venue is appropriate considering what the high school league provides for football, basketball and cheerleading. But that is not an easy fix. We can start with having more than one concession area available, the lines were completely unacceptable. The restrooms were also unacceptable for that many people. They were not maintained or cleaned. There should be a separate area for the wrestlers to get dressed and cleaned up. I seen rooms full of tables that I felt could have been better used as an area for wrestlers to warm up with an extra mat or two. If we are going to place to fourth, properly recognize the third and fourth place finishers that worked their tail off all year, no announcement, no podium spot for fourth, no cheap medal for fourth? The little things to honor the hard work they put in.Lastly I would have liked for the people or person that said it wasn't sold out to have helped me and my family find a place to sit or watch my son wrestle, every seat around me was taken and people were 2-4 deep at the rail.
 
Just a few things from my point of view:

#1 - When we moved to this state (in 2006), we were running individual states at 3 different venues (High schools), then we had a year or two of them all being at 1 high school (Rock Hill and Lexington) in 2 separate gyms. So being able to house it all in one building for all divisions to be seen is a positive. I agree it may not be large enough, may not be centrally located, may not be the best of accommodations, but we are all in one spot together. We do the best with what we have available.

#2 - In regards to placement, the State only recognizes the top 3 finishers. The first 3 years we lived here in SC, the 4th placer did not even get to come to the award stand. I don't think that started until we went to Rock Hill and it carried on from there. The medals are supplied from the SCHSL and they only give Gold, Silver and Bronze. I am not sure how you can recognize a 5th thru 8th when you truly don't know how they would end up for that placement without wrestling.

#3 - Todd McCormick does a tremendous job trying to improve the venue each year to make it a better place. I can honestly say that all the things mentioned are legitimate concerns and Todd would try to improve them. If you have ideas to make it better within the constraints of the building we are in, get any suggestion you have to Todd and he will incorporate it if it is possible and if he sees it as something that can improve the experience. I know the concession stand issue will be addressed for next year.

#4 - I am going to work with Tommy and the schools who host the Upper and Lower State tournaments for the info we need so that it is all available on Saturday night after the upper/lower states and the first posting of the State brackets. I actually ran the 4A Lower State tourney and did not think about getting the info along with the host school that I needed. I will say thank you to Beaufort HS as they did collect all this info for me from the 3A Lower State tourney. Little things we can make better with communication. I would love if all schools were able to utilize the same software I do (or track wrestling) for the posting of their results of the regions and/or Upper/lower states, but this is not a money generating sport and the costs increased a lot this past year for wrestling programs...so a software purchase may not be in the books for some of the host teams.

#5 - I agree with those that mentioned that we need to generate more promotion with the sport of wrestling in our communities. The more exposure we have to the hard work these young men put in to get to the point they want to go, not only in the sport, but in the game of life, the better off it is for many. I have 5 sons, 4 of which wrestled through the year they graduated high school. Four of them (#5 is still in 8th grade) have turned out to be outstanding adults in their lives because of the values learned and taught to them in the sport of wrestling. We need to promote these kids as much as we can. We had a few awesome stories of great kids who changed their lives through the sport of wrestling this year...including 3A Runner-Up Javier Moreno of Richland Northeast and Donte Bolds of Woodmont (just a couple kids that stick out to me this year).

#6 - There are a lot of great coaches (role models) in this sport who give their all for their kids. Most would give the shirt off their backs for their kids. I just hope this never dies in this state. That is the passion and fire that builds these boys in to men. Parents should embrace these coaches if they happen to have one at the school their kid wrestles at.

Just my two cents...it is a pleasure for me to serve the wrestling community in the way I do. I love interacting with the wrestlers as they work their way through high school...I built relationships with a lot of the kids that were on the mats this past weekend and their coaches. I told Matt Rudy Saturday night when he finally brought me a bout sheet back to the table after his 2nd state title, I remember talking with him the first tournament he wrestled in as a freshman and was like a lost football player on the mat...he has come a long way from that day!!! Please, keep promoting the sport and supporting the kids and coaches.
This post was edited on 3/2 10:32 AM by D11WrestBest
 
OH, almost forgot...MOW's for the tourney were:

2A/1A - Daquan Chappell, Central

3A - Gage Cervanka, Emerald

4A - Justin Knipper, Socastee

I will get them added to the PDF's on the website as well.
 
JYMF,

I have tried to push this since I was a coach and still say the following needs to happen and wrestling would be able to pay for a larger, centrally located venue. The SCHSL could charge a "sanctioning" fee for each invitational hosted by member schools throughout the season. It could be $50-$100 per tourney depending on the number of teams invited. This would raise thousands of dollars during the season and the money could be used to pay for the state tourney venue. That is what is done in FLA and works very well. Most tourney hosts will not mind giving up $50-$100 if they know the money will be used for betterr facilities for state. I have brought this up to many people but it has never gotten anywhere in SC. Of course, with Bruce retiring, I would be happy to step into his job and would certainly push the sport of wrestling in SC. Please feel free to recommend me for that position to the HSL.

TBowe
 
A lot of great posts and opinions offered, but no one has suggested a viable alternative. The Anderson people did a great job of running the tournament no doubt. The problem is the venue size and location. When the coaches and competitors take up a large amount of seating, and the venue is a four hour + drive for part of the potential spectators there is going to be a problem in regards to growing the sport in SC. That same problem will exist if we were able to find a SCHSL approved location in the low country.

As far as I know SC is the only state with a major city, that is also the capitol, slap dab in the center of the state. Columbia is obviously the best choice as anyone can get there from anywhere in our state in under three hours. But where do you host it?

The Carolina Coliseum is no longer an option as USC is remodeling it for classroom use. That leaves the Colonial Center, but the same issue persists that kept us from getting the Coliseum - the SCHSL refuses to book it as they feel they will lose money on the tournament. It would be great if we could raise some serious money to invest in advertising and promotion for next year's tournament, attract some serious spectator numbers, and demonstrate to the SCHSL that they won't lose money at the Colonial Center - but that would create a catch 22 as the venue we currently have cannot accommodate any more bodies.

Thus the only option is for a wrestling lover with deep pockets to buy the rights, rent the Colonial Center, and invest heavily in advertisement and promotion to attract the casual fan (people without a relative entered in the tournament) to the event. If you find that person, please ask him or her to also endow a wrestling team at Clemson.

Two questions:

Does anyone know if Darla Moore likes wrestling?

Is it too soon for me to suggest that we divide the tournament into three separate tournaments and use those as qualifiers for one all classification state tournament like California?
 
well, my mom called The State Newspaper today and gave them a piece of her mind because there was no coverage in the paper for the midlands team. This is also the lady who cost me a team point at the Spring Valley tourney for giving a ref a piece of her mind...
 
TBOWE,

I would be willing to bet all schools who host events would love to give money for the greater good of seeing it in Columbia.

Here is the problem, all schools who hosted tournaments this year had to fork out at least $200 for a "head official" which has never been done before. Do you thnk the officials would be willing to back off that $200 head guy and have us use that money for a bigger venue?

I would love to be able to find out how much was spent across the state this year on that head official fee. I am curious to know if it is enough for us to use as a payment for the venue in columbia.
 
At the risk of further irritating and alienating the posters on this board, if that's even possible, may I suggest that if we are not going to evolve to a one classification tournament that awards six places, that we go back to three separate state tournaments. Why, you may ask? Because I do not think, in it's current form and location, the state tournament attracts "casual" fans - it only attracts people with a vested interest in a certain team. Let me use my own personal experience to argue my point.

Other than a few years during the early 1990's, my entire wrestling life in SC has been associated with 4A teams as a competitor and coach. As you all have probably surmised, I am a strong proponent of a one classification individual state tournament; but being a realist, I understand that the large percentage of 3A and 1A/2A coaches would never go for this. That being the case, for years I wanted to have all classifications at one location so that I could watch a few kids from other classifications wrestle. I no longer feel strongly about that. Why? Because I really don't watch any matches other than 4A anyway.

I remember during the last state tournament, prior to Saturday, I attended in 2012 Jordan Wigger was wrestling, but I wanted to watch someone on another mat. Wigger threw his kid and I remember being so mad I missed it. Saturday I was at the tournament affiliated with a 4A team that had, realistically, no chance at a champion and as it turned out did not have a place winner. Thus for much of the tournament I was a "casual" fan. I did want to watch some kids from the other classifications that wrestled for coaches I know, but found that I only watched bits and pieces of the Eastside, Berea, and Columbia High matches as my attention was always drawn back to the 4A mat. I bet that also holds true for a lot of you.

My suggestion: go back to having three separate tournaments but have the SCHSL webcast the semis, consolation finals, and finals of all three. That way people can attend the tournament that most interests them and then at their leisure watch online matches from the other tournaments.

And for anyone that wants to argue that we have one tournament for the benefit of college coaches - give it a rest. Someone told me that John Mark Bentley from App St. was there Saturday, but I bet he was the only one. College coaches from outside the state are NOT coming to our state tournament to recruit. They use the various national tournaments. The only coaches that might use our state tournament as a recruiting tool are the programs from within SC, and they were outside of the state at their qualifying tournaments this weekend.
 
I saw at least 5 different colleges represented this weekend...I am sure there were more...just as an FYI.
 
Gardner Webb was there too. Pretty sure they were the only D1 schools there. Didn't see anyone from the Citadel there but I might have missed them.
 
Newton,

I can't really speak for the organization as a whole, but as officials we have had casual conversation about not having the $200 fee for a head official next year (most of us officials want to continue to grow the sport). I worked pretty much every weekend and only one time during the season did I have a head official who was not a working head official. Meaning, at only one tournament I officiated did the school pay the $200 head official fee. Of course, this was in the upstate so I have no idea what was taking place in other areas.

TBowe
 
I am not calling you out DII, but I'm curious as to which colleges were there. App St., Gardner Webb, & who else? I saw Reagan (sp) there, but I believe he is now coaching at a high school in Georgia. I wish more colleges would come, but why they don't is another topic. I really do hope that more colleges were there; if so, I would reconsider my stance - but a handful of college coaches doesn't change my opinion at the moment.

Since I'm not busy today I will go further to offer suggestions, as well as demonstrating why it will be difficult to achieve success, as to how to build a large, spectacular single site event:

1) Reserve a large venue in Columbia - preferably the Colonial Center that has plenty of room for mats, warm-up areas, and seating/accommodations for fans. Columbia is the logical choice as it makes it convenient for people from across the state to afford to attend. Plus, since Charlotte, a major urban center, is within two hours drive time we could try and promote the event there as well.

2) Create an all-inclusive website covering schedule, hotel accommodations, restaurants, and activities for fan's down time as well as a coaches registration/information page that also details which officials have been assigned to the tournament. It also needs to have a former champions reservation page - more on that in a minute.

3) Create eye catching posters and flyers and hang them across the state in every MMA gym, private workout facility, mall, and any other place that gets large amounts of foot traffic. You will probably have to give the owners of these establishments something like free or discounted entry so that they will allow this.

4) A month or two prior, take out adds in the sports section and community section of EVERY newspaper large and small across the state. You would also have to have adds on their online presence.

5) A week or two prior, have the sportscasters at every televised news channel around the state (and Charlotte) promote the event. Good luck with that as we all know how much coverage wrestling gets now.

6) Prior to the finals do like the NCAA Tournament and have a "Parade of Former State Champions." This will be a logistical and time consuming nightmare, but it would increase revenue. Charge the champs a discounted entry admission and hope they bring a lot of full-priced-paying family to watch them get honored.

7) Approach EVERY business in the Columbia area to obtain corporate sponsorships.

8) Find a person with TREMENDOUS organizational skills and vision who is willing to devote a LARGE amount of their time for at least six months to make all of the above happen AND run a complex tournament smoothly. Large once a year events, like Burning Man for example, have big full-time staffs working year round to organize their events.

As you can tell, all of the above would take a substantial up-front investment with no guaranteed return. It might take several years of this kind of promotion before the event would be financially viable. The problem we have iin our state s that we are trying to grow the sport in SC using the state tournament. Other states with awesome state tournaments - Ohio, PA, Illinois, Iowa, Etc...- don't have to use their state tournament to grow the sport. Their state tournaments are a by-product of the popularity of wrestling there already. I agree a large, well-done tournament would help grow the sport tremendously here, I just don't see how it could be done.

I really do hate being Debbie Downer, but as I said I am a realist. Now if I win the lottery....
 
Allen, Newberry, Anderson. I think there may have been a Limestone coach there as well, but not sure on that one. And I agree with you, 1 or 5, the college coach thing should not make a difference...8 to 10, then it becomes a point. I usually see Cy Wainwright (Coker) at a lot of tournaments, I do not remember seeing him at the state tourney though.
 
ALso if its got to stay in Anderson they have to get some 2 sided clocks. Its crazy that a mom or grand ma cant even tell if their love one is winning.
 
As an upstate native I like the fact that the finals are held here. However, as a resident of Anderson County I could care less if it comes back to the convention center. That place is too small and too dated. Whoever runs the tourney does the best they can I'm sure of that. But, it could stand to be held elsewhere that is more appealing to not only casual fans but the die hards like many of you on this thread.

What about a place like the TD Center in Greenville? It has multiple halls. Break the finals up into classifications and stream them throughout the building. I think it'd be pretty awesome to be watching one match in person and stealing a glance or two at another big time match on an overhead screen instead of trying to watch across an entire venue. Heck, if there's Wifi present that alone would keep casual fans interested. If there's one thing that drives me crazy about wrestling is that it is so time consuming from a fan standpoint. It's also a little unfair that wrestling runs along side of basketball and the beginning of baseball. The basketball semis and many popular preseason baseball events all take place the same day(s) as the wrestling finals. That pretty much knocks out Littlejohn Coliseum and the Bon Secour center in Greenville. I'd be in favor of it moving to one larger more accommodating location or breaking it into 3 nicer locations, schools like Dorman or other larger 3A, 2A&1A venus.

Last, keep the wrestlers and coaches away from the fans and fan area. Theres nothing more frustrating than to make your way through a crowd, find some seats and there's coolers, gym bags and other stuff that belong to wrestlers and/or their family members. Their kid may not even wrestle for another 2-3 hours. Give them their own "private" area, bathrooms and a warm up area that is away from the spectators. It'd be really nice to be above the arena to see everything. We attended a college tournament at the Citadel earlier this season and it was nice to be above the arena and away from the wrestling teams. I hate to say it but this sport just isn't that appealing to those outside of having someone competing. No matter how much you advertise I just don't think casual fans are going to say "Hey lets go check out an 8 or 9 hr. wrestling event to see kids we don't know". I like the fact that wrestling supporters are so passionate and dedicated. You have my utmost respect.

Sorry to be rambling on. Just a couple of thoughts from a casual fan that's trying really hard to get into and understand the sport of wrestling. I really hope my son gives wrestling a shot when he's able.
 
The large arenas and coliseums are too expensive and unnceccsary. Surely there is a mid level complex somewhere in the state that could accomodate. It would cost much less and create a much more appealing atmosphere.
There are ways to make it less expensive and more appealing. It just takes the work and thought of many like us on here working toward a common goal.
Most importantly and the greatest obstacle of all....the SCHSL has to make it matter to THEM. Currently it is very easy to put on an event that is small(8 man bracket), ran by the coaches and fans, and they send a rep to pass out awards at the end.

All good points so far.....just need the right people talking, as well as the right people listening.
 
What about a rotation where, for example: Every odd year state tournaments are held at different sites (1A-2A, 3A, and 4A are separate), and every even year we have a place in the Upstate/Midlands/Lower State host. HSL would then be able to save money to spend on everyone being together for 2 years to afford the Coliseum/CLA or something along those lines? Surely the place that hosted the Coastal Clash could be made available on regularly occurring basis? This would give almost everyone at least 1 chance to wrestle in a large venue for a state title as almost everyone that is contending for a state title wrestles for at least 2 years. If that sounds good in principle but not financially, then maybe we make it 2-3 years of hosting at 3 sites and then 1 year at a larger venue?

Sidenote: Darth, the Coliseum floor is not being converted to classroom space. They have 2 full basketball courts down on the floor now and it has become the practice facility for the Men's and Women's teams now. Now that the ice has been removed, if we could get the tournament back there then the mats would not be rock solid (not to be confused with #BrockSolid). Still plenty of room for warming up down in the Elephant room as well.
 
Everyone has some great and interesting comments, suggestions and concerns, but let's face the honest truth. The SCHSL is not going to make any changes unless they absolutely NEED to.

Let's take a complex situation and simplify it... If you are truly trying to grow the sport let's look at how EVERYTHING grows.

What would happen if everyone went back to their town, in their little community and promoted wrestling. Conduct camps and clinics at the elementary school level and pass out flyers for the local youth club (or start one). If we have hundreds of new children get involved in wrestling over the next 1-2 years, then we have hundreds of new parents involved, family members, neighbors and teachers, more advocates for the sport. Some of these individuals will be on, or know someone on the school board. Some will know someone or be connected to someone on the SCHSL. These "new" advocates will express what wrestling has done for their son and their newly found love for the sport. Let's face it, once your child falls in love with wrestling, as a parent - so do you! After the initial growth increase, we continue with the camps, clinics and flyers. Over the next 1-2 years, we now have doubled and tripled the number of youth we have involved in wrestling, these boys are getting ready to go into middle school, their parents see the need for change...

Leaders make changes due to NEEDS not wants.

It's about the numbers and leadership. We need more involvement and leaders to guide them.

So before you point your finger, ask yourself; am I doing my part? It can really be that easy or that difficult, you choose.


M2M
 
Couple Ideas...

1 - This doesn't need to be a 2 day tournament as an 8 man bracket. This entire tournament can be completed in 1 day, even with all 3 divisions.

For each round, just have 1 classification, using all 6 mats, just like Friday.

Weigh-ins Saturday morning 7-8 am, with a 9 am start.

Rd 1 - Quarterfinals on all 6 mats

go thru each division, starting the next one when one completes, move matches as need be using all 6 mats.

Rd 2 - Semi's on 3, Consi's on 3

go thru each division, starting the next one when one completes, move matches as need be using all 6 mats

Rd 3 - Consi-Semis on 4 mats, though you could use all 6

go thru each division, starting the next one when one completes, move matches as need be

Rd 4 - Championship on 1 mat, Consi Finals on 1 mat

Big negative here is that the Championship don't get the spotlight of going by themselves.

Also, doing it this way, there is no question about the 45 minute rest break after a match...

Also, there are enough Officials, you don't have to take a break at all


2 - Keep it a 2 day tournament, but only have 1 division go at a time.

Friday you can have 1 state tournament, starting it in the afternoon and wrestling it to completion.

Saturday start one early, lets say by 9 am, start one in the afternoon, just like Friday.

Or you can do 2 on Friday and 1 on Saturday.


3 - Doesn't Sumter have a Civic Center that can hold 8 mats and has seating that goes up and wouldn't have fans on the floor?

Just some thoughts from a bystander from this weekend...
 
Sun, my understanding was that some or all of the seating at the Coliseum would be coming out as the convert the building to a practice facility and add more classrooms. I could be totally wrong as I'm a Clemson grad and don't follow the goings-on of Carolina closely.

DII, if Wainwright wasn't there it is probably because DII had regionals this weekend.

Everyone else, totally agree with comments about the lack of interest by the SCHSL. Their lack of interest and understanding of wrestling has always been the case. Why else would they put a basketball guy in charge of wrestling?

If there is a viable solution/alternative to the Anderson Civic Center, I hope that someone can come up with it and make it happen; otherwise, just do what I did this weekend. Eat sparingly and every time you have to leave your seat make sure there is someone there to save it for you.
 
For me, and I admittedly do not know any of the history, but having it at The Citadel is a no-brainer. It was by far the best venue in 2003.

The actual venue itself lends itself perfectly for a wrestling tournament in regards to sight lines, floor space, warm-up areas, seating for parents, and separation between partcipants and spectators. The facility itself is not exorbitantly large giving it a packed crowd feel. Bleachers come out in the finals for additional seating and a more personal experience but still maintain a distance for warmup on the opposite side. Even the capacity for additional mats if running round 1 all together is important (though I like the staggered starts and I think most people do)

Most importantly, Charleston is a destination at large. I speak to the NJ state tournament as a similar example. Held every year in Atlantic City (a horrible, trash heap of a town) but it is a destination for wrestlers, former wrestlers, families, and former wrestlers families where people go to stay involved in the sport. It's easy to say that the roots of the sport lend to the following and that true of course, but you aren't having the turnout if that baby is in Newark or Trenton. No way.

The current facility is simply subpar for any sort of sporting event. Leave that place for the corporate trade shows and Antique Roadshow.

That said, this weekend was run perfectly. The bracket updates and scheduling were as advertised. Other than the facility it was an excellent weekend of wrestling.
 
About time this message board has some interesting topics! Hasnt been the same since Darth was ripping anybody and everybody before being outed!
 
I agree '03 in Chuck was great...the years it was at the coliseum were great as well. The ability to have seperate on of fans and coaches/wrestlers is key...Nothing is more annoying than trying to get your warmup on and hearing someone give you crap a out being in the way. Raised seating is key.
 
Okay, First and foremost I am very new to SC wrestling. I moved here from IL two years ago. I want to throw my two cents into your guys comments about the state tournament this past weekend. I also wanted to let you know I attended this year as a Coach.
I attended the IL state tournament as a fan, wrestler, and coach. I made it a point regardless of what was going on, that I would be there. Why, you may ask. Because it was exciting. The tournament although not held in the center of the state is at a larger facility that holds roughly 10,000 people. This arena is packed, for the finals, every year to the rafters. I understand that the wrestling following in SC is not as big as in IL yet, but one reason I can see from this past weekend is the fan experience. No offense to anyone that had any part in running the tournament or worked at it, because its not your fault, but to me it was sub-par. It reminded me of a large little kids tournament from my past. Spectators had to fight for seats, couldn't see their kids wrestle, had to wait in line upwards to an hour to get food, and have gross restrooms. This to me is not fan friendly. Another thing is how about books like mentioned before that has all the brackets and past champions. It is done at almost all state championships. It is also a good place to sell sponsorship spaces for additional funding. I know the one in IL is $5 and I loved buying one as a kid and following along as the matches happened. You could be watching a mat to see the bout number then return to your book to see who was wrestling. This book is free for the IHSA to sell because they get sponsors for that and the tournament. (I believe country insurance) Another issue I have is how you could not see the scores of matches. The SCHSL needs to get on the ball and buy the trackwrestling system with the standing 3 or 4-sided scoring. It is not that expensive. Hell I was thinking about getting it at my small 2A school. Again its part of the fan experience. I have a great suggestion for where they would be located. How about where the head officials were sitting.
Second reason it was not exciting would be for the wrestlers. Like many of you said, there is no where for the athletes to warm-up. I did notice that after weigh-ins on the second day, they put in a couple of sections of mats for warm-ups which is nice. I will also tell you that there is no such thing of warm-up mats at the IL state tourney unless it has changed in the past two years. Another part of the wrestler experience is they should not have to report to the head table to get a bout sheet either. Track wrestling solves this again. Matches are sent to the table and you report to table after hearing you name called. This eliminates kids standing in front of spectators. Last part of the wrestler experience is the medals/placing. I think placing in the top 4 is sufficient so long as the brackets stay the same size. Most states go to six place but they also have 12 qualifiers. 4 sectionals champs get bye and the other 8 are in a predetermined order.

I'm sure some of you are thinking the same as me. I would absolutely love to help make wrestling stronger in SC and be a part of some type of committee for the state tournament if their is one. Anything I can do to help this sport. Please let me know if anyone has any suggestions on how I can do this other than promote it at my school and community.

Sorry for the typo's and misspellings Im sure there are a bunch. Wrote this very quickly this morning, after discovering this website for the first time.
 
I never liked the venue when there as a coach, and still don't like it as a fan. I agree with a lot of the other posters on here about no warm-up area, and no separation between spectators and wrestlers/coaches. Here's my opinion on some things:

Forget about whether or not the site is centrally located. Pick a venue that enhances the experience for both fans and wrestlers. Being a native of NJ, the state tournament is at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City- not in the center of the state. Fans still come and pack the place because the wrestling is great, and the venue is suited for the event- there's also things to do between sessions. There is only so much a tournament director can do in a place like the Anderson Civic Center. Wrestling in this state is getting MUCH better, and it's time to treat the wrestlers like it and give them and the growing number of fans interested in the sport a proper venue. I'm also in favor of having the state tournament one class, but that's another thread/topic.

Warm-up area. One way to solve the lack of warm-up area is to set up an area in the back and have a staging area. Have the wrestlers warm-up there and then head to the mat when the match before theirs is over. Now you don't have wrestlers and coaches standing matside in front of spectators because they have no other place to warm-up.

Fans- keep them in the stands! If everyone stays in the stands, there won't be a problem with viewing the mats. The problem is that everyone who knows Johnny Wrestler feels like they need to be right on the edge of the mat when he's wrestling- that's what coaches are for. My mom and dad were able to see me and my brother fine and record our matches from the stands. This will also end a lot of problems, as I have noticed an increase of them with spectators that are matside over the years. I've seen fans get in altercations with officials, coaches, and wrestlers which is easily preventable if they stay in the stands. There needs to be a separation between the spectating area and wrestling area.

Overall presentation. Respectable/professional dress by coaches goes a long way. It may seem as a small thing, but people do notice that. Does it have to be a suit and tie like some coaches? Not really, but what's wrong with wearing a pair of khaki's and a polo shirt with your school logo on it? When I was coaching in NJ us coaches had fun during counties, districts, regions, and states as to who's the best dressed- even the local newspaper would get it on the fun and occasionally put it in the end of the article. One writer even put it in as one of his year end awards. It's something small that doesn't take much effort that does make an impression.

Fan-friendly tournament. Have brackets available at the venue. Have a program made up and sell space in it. Most teams have at least one business that sponsors them in some capacity, so I don't think they'd mind expanding their advertising by putting an ad in the program- I'd purchase an ad in the program if there was one. As mentioned before, get scoreboards and clocks that are visible to everyone. Fans need to know what's going on and it's tough when you can't see the score, especially when looking at multiple matches that are going on.

Wrestling in SC has come a long way in the six or seven years that I've been down here, and is only going to get better. Maybe one day we'll have coverage like this http://highschoolsports.nj.com/wrestling/. It's something to aim for with everyone working together and promoting the sport at all levels.
 
There are a lot of good thoughts in this thread. Kudos to JYMF for getting the conversation going and to all who have responded. My biggest complaint as someone affiliated with a 4A school was that the placement of the scorer's table during the finals prevented half the crowd on that side from seeing a portion of the mat. I agree that we need to find a way to keep everyone in the stands, but if my son's wresting in the state finals and I can't see the clock, score, and part of the mat from where I'm sitting, there's a good chance I'm going to try to move down to the floor to watch the match. The bottom line is that the Civic Center is just not big enough to hold this event.

But since the Civic Center is our current location, there are improvements that could be made. One way to fix the overcrowding issue is to split up more of the tournament. I think Darth was on the money when he said that most fans of a particular school are really only going to be interested in the matches in their classification. Why not start wrestling earlier in the day on Friday? The first round could start at 10 am (gives everyone in the state a reasonable chance to get there on Friday without having to pay for a hotel on Thursday if they're worried about keeping costs low).

The schedule could at least be arranged so that the finals for each classification are wrestled separately. I admit this would seem slightly odd if other rounds of the tournament were wrestled together, but I think it's much more special for the wrestlers to be truly in the spotlight during the finals. This also makes for a better parade of champions. With all due respect to the wrestlers who worked so hard to be a part of it, a 15-20 minute parade of champions for all three classifications is boring and a borderline waste of time. If the classes are wrestled separately, you can have an improved parade of champions where you can announce each wrestler's record, list of accomplishments, college plans if applicable, etc. And consider how much better the overall atmosphere would be if everyone was watching one match. We got a taste of that during the 4A 120 lb. match on Saturday. When that final takedown was scored, that place got loud.

I absolutely agree with all suggestions about a nice program that has brackets, advertisements, and state tournament history. Anything that involves SC wrestling's history will keep people involved and help grow the sport even more. As a kid, my dad and I went to the PA state tournament every year. Each time, we bought a very nice program for about $5 that had all of those things in it. I've held on to a lot of those programs and still pull them out from time to time while watching NCAAs, etc. Plus, I guarantee you every parent and the majority of spectators will buy one.

Not only that, but why not give free admission to all past state champions or offer other incentives for them to come and bring their families? If I recall correctly, right before the PA state finals each year, they induct a handful of folks into the state wrestling hall of fame. Doing something similar in SC would help celebrate our history, keep former wrestlers interested and invested in the sport, and sell more tickets.
 
I really like the idea of a program or some type of info graphic. As I stated before, I'm trying to understand and learn this sport. My nephew won the state championship last year and now wrestles in college. I'm still clueless about some of the scoring. Heck do like football programs that have pics of refs and what the calls mean. Have silhouettes of wrestlers explaining the points and moves. That may help increase interest in my opinion. Plus, it will let others know who all the great wrestlers are. The casual fan wouldn't know who a Gage Cervenka was or that he'd won 3x for example. If you give me a program that shows the Rudy kid wrestling a certain time then people who wouldn't otherwise know who he was would be inclined to stick around or stay seated to watch.

Last, is it fair to suggest the state finals be changed to single elimination? Come Saturday you have a parade of champions, honor any past champions in attendance and then have the finals by class kind of like football A/AA, AAA & AAAA last or flip a coin as to which class goes first and showcase each class. The whole arena watches each class. I think it'd make it even more special for the winners.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I know this may sound crazy, but we could keep the structure of the state tournament the same, and have time to make the finals more of a showcase by simply wrestling a second round on Friday night. I know that almost no one would want to see the semi-finals be on Friday night, but other than having people out of the tournament on the first night, why couldn't we wrestle the first round of consolations on Friday night as well. Then, begin with the semi-finals on Saturday morning. You only have two rounds of cons. on Saturday, then time to rock-n-roll with the finals that much earlier. Go on three mats for the finals, but stagger them. A/AA 106 wrestles. Then, once the final whistle blows, AAA 106 begins, and so on. Keep two mats on the floor so that the next match can be ready to wrestle immediately without having to hurry up the guy that just won off of the mat, and the fan can either focus on the celebration, or go straight into watching more action.

Just a thought.
 
Pita, the idea of wrestling a second round sounds great, but if you look at the impact it could have it could be damaging. Think about a school who has one qualifier. That person loses his first two matches, they are more then likely going back home. I think all of us want for a a better atmosphere. The more people there the better. Most states have multiple class state champions. Most states also wrestle them at the same time. Someone posted earlier about just watching the 4A wrestling which is fine so watch them and at the same time I will watch another. I dont think staggering them will do anything except make the heavyweights wait a long time until they wrestle.

I also did some research since my last post. It would cost roughly $20000 dollars to buy the trackwrestling system clocks and so forth. (6 3-sided clocks) A little more than what I had orginally thought. I know that the Illinois high school association does not own the ones they use. They rent them from the Illinois kids wrestling federation. Meaning if there is a will there is a way.
 
In the Mailbag on Intermat this week Foley answers a question concerning the Tennessee state tournament which it seems was an absolute cluster.

Oddly, another thing that he brings up that I just realized were the lack of showers at the facility. Guys who wrestled in consi semi matches, or for 3rd more than likely were not able to get back to the hotel to shower after the noon checkout (or even 2pm if late checkout is assumed) and were forced to sit until 9:00pm for medals without proper amenities to combat preventable skin maladies.

Let's just say, the worst case scenario (use your imagination) in that situation would reflect extremely poorly on the HSL on a scale that would extend beyond this state. It would be really unfortunate for them to be held accountable for something like that...
 
Staggering the finals would make for a very long finals session. 14 weight classes times 3 matches would be 42 matches. Take into account that each match can take between 8-10 minutes(in some cases longer), and you have a finals session anywhere from 6 to 7 hours long- that's not even factoring in the awards presentation The big problem isn't the current format, it comes down to the venue not being the right one.

This post was edited on 3/6 8:57 AM by rhino_wrestling_club_sc
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M

About SC-USAW

Replies
5
Views
1K
Wrestling Central
Tough Time !
T
S

Do better SCHSL....

Replies
40
Views
2K
Wrestling Central
BulldogZ91
B
J

AAAA Upper State Tournament Delayed

Replies
17
Views
1K
Wrestling Central
2sem
2
D

2015 SCHSL State Tournament - Important Info Update

Replies
3
Views
261
Wrestling Central
D11WrestBest
D
S

10 Things Parents Can Do to help their Kids Wrestle their BEST!

Replies
0
Views
202
Wrestling Central
SCWC
S
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back