Those Darn Legion Coaches Are At It Again

[COHAZE]

Pitcher throws close to 100 pitches on Tuesday. Under the New Legion Pitching Rules he cannot legally pitch again until Sunday at the earliest. But, team has a Saturday game against a non-league opponent. Guess what. Coach Rulebreaker brings the kid in to pitch anyway.

His rationale, as I understand it, is that the Saturday game is basically just a "scrimmage" so the pitching rules don't apply.

YOU FREAKING MORON! Calling a game a "scrimmage" makes no difference. For one thing, the scrimmage excuse is clearly a lie. Your main concern was clearly WINNING what you now want to call a scrimmage, otherwise you would have thrown a weaker pitcher.

The pitch count and mandatory rest rules are all about protecting arms. Rationalizing technicalities, aka BS, to try to get around the rules indicates that you do not understand, or care about, the purpose of the rule. You do not care about the kids' health, or about the part of the Pledge that says "I WILL KEEP THE RULES."

Do the kids a favor. RESIGN NOW.

 

[baseballfan155]

Cohaze I agree 100% with you that the coach should of not thrown that kid until Sunday. Our main goal as coaches is to protect the kids arm. This is our duty as a coach. That's why these rules are in place!

Here is the issue. Was this a league game or a scrimmage or non league game?

If a team deems it a scrimmage the state or league can not enforce the pitch smart rules. I don't even think they can enforce non league or invitational tournament games!

If a kid throws any pitches in a travel ball game or collegiate wood bat game those pitches do not count toward legion. This is coming from national!

Not defending the idiot coach what's so ever! A lot of Legion coaches don't have any affiliation for a high school or college. For these Legion Coaches its win at all costs. He will never have that kid again so who cares if he runs him into the ground.

That's why I think a lot of college coaches are wanting to have their players come take summer classes or shut it down for the whole summer.

Inexcusable!

 

[COHAZE]

As I understand it, it was a non-league game. I'm not sure how you can call any games played this time of year "scrimmages." The teams, both LEGION teams, are dressed out. The umpires are there. Everybody's playing to win. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Don't see why the state cannot enforce pitching rules when one Legion team plays another Legion team.

To allow a coach to dodge the rules by calling something a scrimmage is idiotic. If it was really a scrimmage, a good coach would use it as an opportunity to develop other pitchers so that he would have more options when he faces those 4 game weeks that are bound to happen later in the season. Not this moron. He's playing to win, nothing more. No vision. No foresight. Just win TODAY.

Not saying I agree, but I can sort of understand National's position on not counting pitches thrown in travel ball games. The Legion coach usually has no way of knowing how many pitches a kid threw during a weekend travel tournament. But, a good coach would still take that into consideration in setting his Legion rotation. Personally, if I was coaching a kid who was also pitching on the weekend, I'd make him and his parents choose whether he was going to be a weekend pitcher or a weekday pitcher. The second best option would be to not use the kid before Thursday or Friday to make sure he got SOME rest. But, there are a number of Legion guys who would throw him Monday night if they needed him. In fairness, there are just as many Travel guys who would ignore the pitches thrown during the week playing Legion.

 

[Noles0509]

what team was it?

 

[Noles0509]

they do it because they know nothing is going to be done to them about it. If those old idiots at the legion knew what the hell they were doing then something would be done but they do not. I think they need a younger guy in there or at least someone with no affiliation to any team like there is now.

 

[baseballfan155]

I don't think the state director is going anywhere for a long time!

 

[Noles0509]

That's a problem then.

 

[COHAZE]

what team was it?

Let's just say it was one of the Usual Suspects and leave it at that, for now.

 

[Bball023]

Pitcher throws close to 100 pitches on Tuesday. Under the New Legion Pitching Rules he cannot legally pitch again until Sunday at the earliest. But, team has a Saturday game against a non-league opponent. Guess what. Coach Rulebreaker brings the kid in to pitch anyway.

His rationale, as I understand it, is that the Saturday game is basically just a "scrimmage" so the pitching rules don't apply.

YOU FREAKING MORON! Calling a game a "scrimmage" makes no difference. For one thing, the scrimmage excuse is clearly a lie. Your main concern was clearly WINNING what you now want to call a scrimmage, otherwise you would have thrown a weaker pitcher.

The pitch count and mandatory rest rules are all about protecting arms. Rationalizing technicalities, aka BS, to try to get around the rules indicates that you do not understand, or care about, the purpose of the rule. You do not care about the kids' health, or about the part of the Pledge that says "I WILL KEEP THE RULES."

Do the kids a favor. RESIGN NOW.

COHAZE you really should feel good about yourself for getting on a message board to call for a coach to resign. How about calling the coach instead of hiding on a message board. From reading your previous complaints about legion on this board, i find it comical that you are clueless about half of the things you complain about.

 

[Dawgpoundit]

COHAZE you really should feel good about yourself for getting on a message board to call for a coach to resign. How about calling the coach instead of hiding on a message board. From reading your previous complaints about legion on this board, i find it comical that you are clueless about half of the things you complain about.

I can assure you that Cohaze has no agenda here other than what is best for the kids playing the game. Has been on this board for a long time and calls it like many see it but won't say it.

To say Cohaze is "clueless" is laughable and regular posters on here know that to be the case. And to reference the posts he has made on this board as "complaints" is to not understand the context of the message. What some see as a complaint, others understand to be reporting factual incidents/occurrences and reporting them to those that may be too close to the situation to have an objective outlook on the particular situation, are unaware, or not understanding the actual situation as it is presenting.

In all the years Cohaze has been posting on this board, I know NOTHING he has stated to be non-factual or biased to any outside agenda. Quite the contrary. The posts have been educational and insightful bringing to light issues that many times are overlooked or ignored by those that place a win-at-all-costs approach to the game. Remember, it's a message board. People leave their opinions/insight/outlook. Whether you agree or disagree with the posts is up to you.

 

[Bball023]

I can assure you that Cohaze has no agenda here other than what is best for the kids playing the game. Has been on this board for a long time and calls it like many see it but won't say it.

To say Cohaze is "clueless" is laughable and regular posters on here know that to be the case. And to reference the posts he has made on this board as "complaints" is to not understand the context of the message. What some see as a complaint, others understand to be reporting factual incidents/occurrences and reporting them to those that may be too close to the situation to have an objective outlook on the particular situation, are unaware, or not understanding the actual situation as it is presenting.

In all the years Cohaze has been posting on this board, I know NOTHING he has stated to be non-factual or biased to any outside agenda. Quite the contrary. The posts have been educational and insightful bringing to light issues that many times are overlooked or ignored by those that place a win-at-all-costs approach to the game. Remember, it's a message board. People leave their opinions/insight/outlook. Whether you agree or disagree with the posts is up to you.

He calls it like a select few on this board see it. Not the majority. Quit riding. Share your opinion on pitch counts and whatever else you want. But dont get on here and call a coach a moron/for him to resign just because YOU think he did something wrong. Be a man and call the coach if you have such a problem with what hes doing.

 

[Dawgpoundit]

He calls it like a select few on this board see it. Not the majority. Quit riding. Share your opinion on pitch counts and whatever else you want. But dont get on here and call a coach a moron/for him to resign just because YOU think he did something wrong. Be a man and call the coach if you have such a problem with what hes doing.

The crux of this conversation is that the kid in question shouldn't have been thrown that particular day. You have gotten offended, as many people do these days when someone voices an opinion opposite to theirs. So, basically, you think it is ok to throw a kid when the guidelines clearly say the kid should NOT have been put on the mound. Regardless of whether it is a league game or not, doesn't matter. I wonder if your opinion would be different if the kid in question was your kid.
Because someone doesn't like the opinion or the way the message was delivered doesn't mean they are part of the minority/majority. Some segments of today's society believe that if they scream louder, or they are larger in #, they are in the right. So in THIS case the coach DID do something wrong by skirting the rules. Sometimes the best way to create changes in social behavior is to call out the offender publicly. I think the OP of this discussion was doing nothing more than just that.

 

[Bball023]

The crux of this conversation is that the kid in question shouldn't have been thrown that particular day. You have gotten offended, as many people do these days when someone voices an opinion opposite to theirs. So, basically, you think it is ok to throw a kid when the guidelines clearly say the kid should NOT have been put on the mound. Regardless of whether it is a league game or not, doesn't matter. I wonder if your opinion would be different if the kid in question was your kid.
Because someone doesn't like the opinion or the way the message was delivered doesn't mean they are part of the minority/majority. Some segments of today's society believe that if they scream louder, or they are larger in #, they are in the right. So in THIS case the coach DID do something wrong by skirting the rules. Sometimes the best way to create changes in social behavior is to call out the offender publicly. I think the OP of this discussion was doing nothing more than just that.

Not offended dawgpoundit. Always makes me laugh when people get on message boards and call for someones job, knowing they wouldnt do it to the persons face.

 

[COHAZE]

Jonah, you really need to let this go. Anyone who doesn't know who I am hasn't been paying attention for the last 13 years. I've even posted my e-mail and phone number in the past. It took me about 3 seconds to figure out who you are AND where you coach. You need to learn that there is no such thing as anonymity on the internet. But, do feel free to post those things that I'm clueless about. I enjoy a good debate.

For the last 12 years I've been watching Legion coaches throw guys 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, and even 170 pitches in a game on an all too frequent basis. I've seen the same guys bring pitchers back on little or no rest on a regular basis. I saw one kid throw 170 and 130 pitches in the same week. He couldn't even lift his throwing arm to shoulder level the day after the second game, but they stuck him in CF anyway. I saw one kid throw 150 pitches on a Wed., only to be brought back in relief Friday night. He could barely lob the ball in the bullpen, but they brought him into the game anyway. He threw 2-3 warm ups and walked off the mound. Bravest, and smartest, thing I've ever seen a HS/Legion pitcher do. I saw another kid that threw 140-150 on Wednesday, only to be brought back in relief on Friday. They finally took him out after he threw 12 straight balls. I saw another kid throw 150+ pitches twice in a two week period. I could go on and on. THESE are the coaches that I think should step down. There's no reasoning with them. There's no educating them. There's no shaming them. They're not going to change voluntarily.

The medical evidence regarding the dangers of high pitch counts, and too little rest between appearances, has been overwhelming for years. And it has been common knowledge for just as long. But, these guys have chosen to ignore the evidence. They either think they know more than the doctors, or simply don't care. You can't reason with guys like that. Thank goodness Dr. Andrews and ASMI finally shame National into adopting pitch count and mandatory rest rules, even if they are a watered down version of what ASMI recommends. (The 120+ pitches allowed by Legion is still too high). Now the laggards will be forced to change their behavior, or get out.

Don't get me wrong. When it comes to things other than pitcher management, these guys may deserve sainthood. But, I don't care. If they're not fully protecting kids' arms, they need to move on.

Some of the things I have seen over the years have disgusted me. As a result, I have been doing everything I can to encourage mandatory pitch counts and mandatory rest for several years now. (Not that I deserve any credit for the changes. That goes to Dr. Andrews, Dr. Fleisig, and ASMI). Now that HS and Legion have finally instituted maximum pitch counts and mandatory days of rest, you probably won't hear as much from me. But, if I hear about guys skirting the purpose of the rules, you will.

 

[Bball023]

Jonah, you really need to let this go. Anyone who doesn't know who I am hasn't been paying attention for the last 13 years. I've even posted my e-mail and phone number in the past. It took me about 3 seconds to figure out who you are AND where you coach. You need to learn that there is no such thing as anonymity on the internet. But, do feel free to post those things that I'm clueless about. I enjoy a good debate.

For the last 12 years I've been watching Legion coaches throw guys 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, and even 170 pitches in a game on an all too frequent basis. I've seen the same guys bring pitchers back on little or no rest on a regular basis. I saw one kid throw 170 and 130 pitches in the same week. He couldn't even lift his throwing arm to shoulder level the day after the second game, but they stuck him in CF anyway. I saw one kid throw 150 pitches on a Wed., only to be brought back in relief Friday night. He could barely lob the ball in the bullpen, but they brought him into the game anyway. He threw 2-3 warm ups and walked off the mound. Bravest, and smartest, thing I've ever seen a HS/Legion pitcher do. I saw another kid that threw 140-150 on Wednesday, only to be brought back in relief on Friday. They finally took him out after he threw 12 straight balls. I saw another kid throw 150+ pitches twice in a two week period. I could go on and on. THESE are the coaches that I think should step down. There's no reasoning with them. There's no educating them. There's no shaming them. They're not going to change voluntarily.

The medical evidence regarding the dangers of high pitch counts, and too little rest between appearances, has been overwhelming for years. And it has been common knowledge for just as long. But, these guys have chosen to ignore the evidence. They either think they know more than the doctors, or simply don't care. You can't reason with guys like that. Thank goodness Dr. Andrews and ASMI finally shame National into adopting pitch count and mandatory rest rules, even if they are a watered down version of what ASMI recommends. (The 120+ pitches allowed by Legion is still too high). Now the laggards will be forced to change their behavior, or get out.

Don't get me wrong. When it comes to things other than pitcher management, these guys may deserve sainthood. But, I don't care. If they're not fully protecting kids' arms, they need to move on.

Some of the things I have seen over the years have disgusted me. As a result, I have been doing everything I can to encourage mandatory pitch counts and mandatory rest for several years now. (Not that I deserve any credit for the changes. That goes to Dr. Andrews, Dr. Fleisig, and ASMI). Now that HS and Legion have finally instituted maximum pitch counts and mandatory days of rest, you probably won't hear as much from me. But, if I hear about guys skirting the purpose of the rules, you will.

Terry haseldon, please keep guessing, you're close. But be a man and contact the coach next time. Cowards call for a guys job who has volunteered 30+ years of his life to a great program. If you really want to make a change, get off this board and go do something about it. Pitch counts were needed in legion and high school and those have been adopted. Im fine with that argument. But calling a coach a moron, and saying he should resign is a complete joke. Shows what kind of person you are.