The next STUD in SC wrestling
- Thread starter Upstatewrestler
- Start date
I don't disagree with anything you have said Caveman. I think obviously due to lack of facilities like yours in the state previously, parents/kids looked out of state to get that type of training and developed a comfort level with those centers, whether they be in NC, GA etc.
Absolutely, kids in the upstate area should take advantage of your training opportunities versus having to travel out of state. For allot of folks in the state though you are still 3 - 3+ hours away. There needs to be a facility in the Lowcountry area also.
You talk about being competitive up to the HS level in SC. I believe A big part of that is the MS wrestling program. I think this is where all the momentum that gets built with youth wrestlers gets lost for 2 years, 7th and 8th grade. A time I feel when kids need to start ramping up their training, growing their technique etc... Allot of them are in counties where they have organized MS teams. While these teams are good in theory, our state isn't at the level or deep enough for them to be effective, it actually has a negative impact.
A County gets its good wrestlers separated/spread out over 3-4-5 MS's, watering down solid training partner opportunities. The coaching is basic and targeted at beginner wrestlers. Schools wrestle each other locally within a county etc and throw in a few tournaments in the season. So in allot of cases the 6th grader who was on the rise now gets dumbed down for 2 years practicing 2.5 hours a day with no one to push him in the practice room.
At the weekend SCYWA events there is very little MS participation, I believe because of this. These organized MS leagues in SC, at least in my experience, need to be reworked until they can actually be beneficial. Right now they are actually setting the kids back. Dorchester, Berkeley , Charleston counties need these experienced MS wrestlers working out together , in the same room where they can be pushed technically and during live drills with similar skill level partners. That is where a dedicated training facility would make a huge difference. There also needs to be a new direction/ focus in the state with the MS program to get wrestlers across the state competing against each other on a weekly basis at weekly tournaments etc.
We just aren't far enough along as a state to have that so splintered and spread out.
Absolutely, kids in the upstate area should take advantage of your training opportunities versus having to travel out of state. For allot of folks in the state though you are still 3 - 3+ hours away. There needs to be a facility in the Lowcountry area also.
You talk about being competitive up to the HS level in SC. I believe A big part of that is the MS wrestling program. I think this is where all the momentum that gets built with youth wrestlers gets lost for 2 years, 7th and 8th grade. A time I feel when kids need to start ramping up their training, growing their technique etc... Allot of them are in counties where they have organized MS teams. While these teams are good in theory, our state isn't at the level or deep enough for them to be effective, it actually has a negative impact.
A County gets its good wrestlers separated/spread out over 3-4-5 MS's, watering down solid training partner opportunities. The coaching is basic and targeted at beginner wrestlers. Schools wrestle each other locally within a county etc and throw in a few tournaments in the season. So in allot of cases the 6th grader who was on the rise now gets dumbed down for 2 years practicing 2.5 hours a day with no one to push him in the practice room.
At the weekend SCYWA events there is very little MS participation, I believe because of this. These organized MS leagues in SC, at least in my experience, need to be reworked until they can actually be beneficial. Right now they are actually setting the kids back. Dorchester, Berkeley , Charleston counties need these experienced MS wrestlers working out together , in the same room where they can be pushed technically and during live drills with similar skill level partners. That is where a dedicated training facility would make a huge difference. There also needs to be a new direction/ focus in the state with the MS program to get wrestlers across the state competing against each other on a weekly basis at weekly tournaments etc.
We just aren't far enough along as a state to have that so splintered and spread out.
If you read his post it sounded like he was bashing those clubs not in SC. If not, I apologize.
Yes, it's great if Caveman is convenient, then our kids should stay in state. But it's not convenient to everyone. Have two weekend Fargo camps around the state if you want to be convenient to all SC wrestlers. Step out of the confines of Greenville and let's build SC wrestling.
I was under the impression that LWA was supposed to be the premiere wrestling facility in the lower state ...with $1000 membership fees they should be the place to get the elite training? Is this not the case?
Let's not forget about JET Wrestling Club in Oconee County. This club has great well known coaches with years of experience. Practice for Freestyle and Greco has already started and this club welcomes anyone that wants to get better with the heart to work hard.The yearly price for this club is $350.00 a year and well worth the drive for anyone that wants to go to GA, NC or the Coast for training.
Mr Goodale,
I agree with everything that you are saying. I have one question for you. As the USA Wrestling Team Director, how do you address the lack of support for the Lower half of the state? There are little to no clubs in the Lowcountry, and no clinics held in the bottom half of the state, even though the Lowcountry is responsible for a large portion of the state champions, (5 in 5A, 4 in 4A, 4 in 3A, 4 in 2/1A) not including Columbia area kids. There is definitely a bias towards the upstate, specifically in terms of development. I'd like to here your thoughts.
I agree with everything that you are saying. I have one question for you. As the USA Wrestling Team Director, how do you address the lack of support for the Lower half of the state? There are little to no clubs in the Lowcountry, and no clinics held in the bottom half of the state, even though the Lowcountry is responsible for a large portion of the state champions, (5 in 5A, 4 in 4A, 4 in 3A, 4 in 2/1A) not including Columbia area kids. There is definitely a bias towards the upstate, specifically in terms of development. I'd like to here your thoughts.
LWA as it was originally intended has been non existent for some time now. The original facility itself was a nice facility and had some things gone differently, would probably be an ideal environment for Lowcountry wrestlers. As I have always said and believed, the facility is only part of the equation, you need the right caliber coach to create the program and build it. I felt like we had that in Bryant Blanton and then Newberry came calling for him to coach at the collegiate level, couldn't blame him for pursuing that great opportunity. At that point, LWA was comprised of multiple partners, including myself, who upon Blanton's move to Newberry , had different views on how to move forward. At that point I decided to step out. LWA continued under one of the original partners for a few years I believe, with my son taking a 2 year soccer hiatus, I was honestly out of the wrestling scene for a few years, so I'm not 100% sure on how it all ended.
If the $1000 membership comment was a little dig.... I'm not sure people understand the cost of just keeping the doors open for a place like that. Go to The Compound, The Wrestling Academy in GA or any other academies/training centers in other states and you are paying $80-$100+ a month for your kid to train year round. I firmly believe that in those cases, the coaching, and training partners you have access to at places like that certainly make it worth it. I believe the results of their kids, D1 placements etc back that up.
I believe if LWA would have been able to keep Blanton full time or replaced him with a coach with a similar background/pedigree, it would have proven to be worth it. LWA was a first for the area and certainly faced its share of kickback/resistance from some HS and Youth coaches in the area, while it received support from others. After living in GA and seeing the impact those training centers had on the quality of wrestling there, it was my desire to bring the same opportunity to our area with LWA after moving back to SC. I'm not ashamed or won't apologize for being part of trying to bring that to this area. I hate that it ultimately didnt become what I had envisioned, but you live and you learn. I can assure you that everyone involved in launching the original LWA invested allot of their time and $ to make it happen.
I always have a hard time understanding why in SC some people have/see no issue justifying paying for high level baseball, soccer, gymnastics etc training, but apply a similar model to wrestling, and those people are somehow bad for the sport?
I can tell you I paid practically twice as much per season to watch my son kick a ball around a field and even more for years for my daughters gymnastics.
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Okay, to start rest assured I am not sweating anything haha as I always enjoy a good debate but also am just trying to get a better understanding of why it is that we operate the way we do in this state as well as the views of others on the topic.
Buckkiller-How many kids does JET send to Fargo each year from South Carolina since they are training freestyle/greco with "great well known coaches" and is well worth the drive and money for kids to get the training in, as well as do they coach they coach the kids while they are at he tournament? Don't take this the wrong way either as it is a serious question as I am trying to educate myself.
Eaglehater- I 100% agree that especially to start off or start building having multiple locations for maybe even regions as I spoke with a few coaches about this weekend at NHSCA, where the coaches running each place are communicating and working on the same things so that when they are at the tournaments competing together they are all on the same page. I am not against that at all, I just don't understand why it is that SC needs to do it that way when none of the other states operate that way or seem to have a problem with having more than 3 kids attending a short camp before traveling to fargo together and competing. It doesn't even have to be in Greenville by any means, it could be somehwere else for sure as the location often changes in a lot of the states each year. It isn't about stepping out of greenville for a fargo camp, it is about having more than just 3 kids preparing and competing in freestyle/greco at the national level each year, and seeing the importance it has on our athletes ability to be successful at the next level as well as garner attention from collegiate coaches in the process. Instead of focusing on driving to other states and helping them build up their programs in the process I just believe we could do so much more by concentrating on getting our BEST kids together for periods of time for a few days of training/preparation and competition. Where again, I will not fault people for doing what they have to in order to get the best training they can, what I fault is not trying to create better training situations in state which would build all of us. I assume that there is not the same type of attention and dedication put into kids that participate in clubs no matter where they are if they are only attending occasionally not to mention not competing with or for the team and coaches????
Lowcountrywrestling- I will be honest as the USA team director and coach I am extremely frustrated and upset with the way things have been done and did not even make the trip to fargo last year because of the lack of follow through when it came to the things i expressed the state needed to start doing. There is no qualifying tournament for fargo in this state at all(and along the same lines I believe there should be one for team palmetto as well) where in other states there is a pretty big battle to get on the team even. For example when I was in high school in Iowa I had to wrestle in a 25+ person bracket that almost always included multiple state champs along with state placewinners from each division just to get into the top four to be able to make the trip to fargo or be on any of the national teams. Here it seems you literally have to beg athletes and coaches to even think about wrestling freestyle/greco not to mention want to make the trip to the largest wrestling tournament in the world. I am also not really aware of any clinics held anywhere in the state as far as Freestyle/greco or need to be educated as to what you are referring to when you talk about a bias towards the upstate?
sbutler- No need to defend attempting to build a wrestling facility and grow the sport, regardless of whether or not others agree with the way you did things or not. I actually did a day of camp for LWA one of the years and it was a good facility and seemed to have a good number of kids at the time. I think that the comments back and forth about LWA and even JET have given a little insight into some of the reason the state does not get the participation it needs or should have when it comes to the freestyle/greco season and sending kids to fargo, in that everyone wants "their" kids to train at their place and not anywhere else......which once again is not what I have been saying at all. I think you guys are assuming that I want everyone at my club or have some sort of alterior motives with the camps and tournaments i am talking about, like i am trying to make a bunch of money off of it or something when I am talking about figuring out a way to get our state to realize that the #1 major difference between us and the states that are experiencing success is that we do not wrestle freestyle/greco in the same way nor put the same importance in it as any of the other states. If you talk to any college coach that is actually a good coach and not just a used car salesman posing as one they will tell you that if you want a chance to become an elite level wrestler or gain the attention of collegiate coaches(especially D1 or very successful other division) that you have got to wrestle freestyle/greco in the summer and attend the big tournaments such as fargo. Where i personally believe that the preparation these other states put in during the process is having a huge effect on the level of wrestling in their states.
Buckkiller-How many kids does JET send to Fargo each year from South Carolina since they are training freestyle/greco with "great well known coaches" and is well worth the drive and money for kids to get the training in, as well as do they coach they coach the kids while they are at he tournament? Don't take this the wrong way either as it is a serious question as I am trying to educate myself.
Eaglehater- I 100% agree that especially to start off or start building having multiple locations for maybe even regions as I spoke with a few coaches about this weekend at NHSCA, where the coaches running each place are communicating and working on the same things so that when they are at the tournaments competing together they are all on the same page. I am not against that at all, I just don't understand why it is that SC needs to do it that way when none of the other states operate that way or seem to have a problem with having more than 3 kids attending a short camp before traveling to fargo together and competing. It doesn't even have to be in Greenville by any means, it could be somehwere else for sure as the location often changes in a lot of the states each year. It isn't about stepping out of greenville for a fargo camp, it is about having more than just 3 kids preparing and competing in freestyle/greco at the national level each year, and seeing the importance it has on our athletes ability to be successful at the next level as well as garner attention from collegiate coaches in the process. Instead of focusing on driving to other states and helping them build up their programs in the process I just believe we could do so much more by concentrating on getting our BEST kids together for periods of time for a few days of training/preparation and competition. Where again, I will not fault people for doing what they have to in order to get the best training they can, what I fault is not trying to create better training situations in state which would build all of us. I assume that there is not the same type of attention and dedication put into kids that participate in clubs no matter where they are if they are only attending occasionally not to mention not competing with or for the team and coaches????
Lowcountrywrestling- I will be honest as the USA team director and coach I am extremely frustrated and upset with the way things have been done and did not even make the trip to fargo last year because of the lack of follow through when it came to the things i expressed the state needed to start doing. There is no qualifying tournament for fargo in this state at all(and along the same lines I believe there should be one for team palmetto as well) where in other states there is a pretty big battle to get on the team even. For example when I was in high school in Iowa I had to wrestle in a 25+ person bracket that almost always included multiple state champs along with state placewinners from each division just to get into the top four to be able to make the trip to fargo or be on any of the national teams. Here it seems you literally have to beg athletes and coaches to even think about wrestling freestyle/greco not to mention want to make the trip to the largest wrestling tournament in the world. I am also not really aware of any clinics held anywhere in the state as far as Freestyle/greco or need to be educated as to what you are referring to when you talk about a bias towards the upstate?
sbutler- No need to defend attempting to build a wrestling facility and grow the sport, regardless of whether or not others agree with the way you did things or not. I actually did a day of camp for LWA one of the years and it was a good facility and seemed to have a good number of kids at the time. I think that the comments back and forth about LWA and even JET have given a little insight into some of the reason the state does not get the participation it needs or should have when it comes to the freestyle/greco season and sending kids to fargo, in that everyone wants "their" kids to train at their place and not anywhere else......which once again is not what I have been saying at all. I think you guys are assuming that I want everyone at my club or have some sort of alterior motives with the camps and tournaments i am talking about, like i am trying to make a bunch of money off of it or something when I am talking about figuring out a way to get our state to realize that the #1 major difference between us and the states that are experiencing success is that we do not wrestle freestyle/greco in the same way nor put the same importance in it as any of the other states. If you talk to any college coach that is actually a good coach and not just a used car salesman posing as one they will tell you that if you want a chance to become an elite level wrestler or gain the attention of collegiate coaches(especially D1 or very successful other division) that you have got to wrestle freestyle/greco in the summer and attend the big tournaments such as fargo. Where i personally believe that the preparation these other states put in during the process is having a huge effect on the level of wrestling in their states.
Coach Goodale,
You and I are on the same page. I'm from SC , wrestled HS in the State. I moved to GA for work. While in GA I ran a youth club and took advantage of the training opportunities for my kids. Dedicated wrestling facilities with passionate coaches, organized, efficient, large number tournaments every weekend, consistent regional and national event travel, and a focus on Freestyle and Greco. It was eye opening and educational, I'm no genius, but In my time there I saw a pretty clear blue print/road map to building the same momentum they had.
When work relocated me back to SC, I was determined to try and do anything I could to bring that road map/blue print to the area. A big piece of that was obviously LWA. Unfortunately allot of people in the state at that time weren't crazy about change. Trying to find the right words, but it just basically boiled down to allot of folks just not knowing any better, never having seen or experienced what it could be... if that makes any sense. Most people were and continue to be content. To be fair, without those years in GA, I might never have truly realized the opportunities SC kids were missing out on.
And to do this day, It still frustrates me that our kids don't have the same opportunities and resources as the kids do in other states. I'm still envious when I go to GA to visit, get a training session in, or wrestle at a tournament. For that frustration, for not just accepting the way things have always been, I've been told at different times I'm anti-SC wrestling, GA homer.... I've been given every reason /excuse why we can't make the same progress GA has.....Its as if some would rather continue to deny their kids the opportunities to reach their full potential, before they will acknowledge that change is needed, like it questions their loyalty.
To be transparent I know there are some really dedicated individuals/ coaches etc in SC who are doing all they can with what they have to push the progress. As I'm sure you know, it is just going to take a more universal effort.
As I have always maintained, it's not a talent/athlete/ability issue in SC... Its a resource/opportunities/culture thing that keeps our state behind other states. I will continue to be critical in the hopes that one day our kids are operating on more of a level playing field. At least I can say I have put my money and time where my mouth is in the pursuit. I hope to make the trip with my son to get some mat time in at your place one day.
You and I are on the same page. I'm from SC , wrestled HS in the State. I moved to GA for work. While in GA I ran a youth club and took advantage of the training opportunities for my kids. Dedicated wrestling facilities with passionate coaches, organized, efficient, large number tournaments every weekend, consistent regional and national event travel, and a focus on Freestyle and Greco. It was eye opening and educational, I'm no genius, but In my time there I saw a pretty clear blue print/road map to building the same momentum they had.
When work relocated me back to SC, I was determined to try and do anything I could to bring that road map/blue print to the area. A big piece of that was obviously LWA. Unfortunately allot of people in the state at that time weren't crazy about change. Trying to find the right words, but it just basically boiled down to allot of folks just not knowing any better, never having seen or experienced what it could be... if that makes any sense. Most people were and continue to be content. To be fair, without those years in GA, I might never have truly realized the opportunities SC kids were missing out on.
And to do this day, It still frustrates me that our kids don't have the same opportunities and resources as the kids do in other states. I'm still envious when I go to GA to visit, get a training session in, or wrestle at a tournament. For that frustration, for not just accepting the way things have always been, I've been told at different times I'm anti-SC wrestling, GA homer.... I've been given every reason /excuse why we can't make the same progress GA has.....Its as if some would rather continue to deny their kids the opportunities to reach their full potential, before they will acknowledge that change is needed, like it questions their loyalty.
To be transparent I know there are some really dedicated individuals/ coaches etc in SC who are doing all they can with what they have to push the progress. As I'm sure you know, it is just going to take a more universal effort.
As I have always maintained, it's not a talent/athlete/ability issue in SC... Its a resource/opportunities/culture thing that keeps our state behind other states. I will continue to be critical in the hopes that one day our kids are operating on more of a level playing field. At least I can say I have put my money and time where my mouth is in the pursuit. I hope to make the trip with my son to get some mat time in at your place one day.
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Trent
My post was to let other folks know there are also more than just a few training facilities in SC, JET being one and being affordable if one choses to go there to train. I don't think there has been any from JET to go to Fargo but then again none of the JET coaches are willing to ride the coat tail of one wrestler that they have only coached one maybe two years. I wouldn't expect you to know the JET coaches as I'm sure they nor I know you. JET did train 5 wrestlers that won individual state championship this year as well as 2 2nd place finishers and 3rd, etc... The only other club with that type of numbers is Eastside's club so JET and Eastside probably are the top clubs in SC. You may not like it but those numbers are much better than Your Fargo numbers.
My 2 cents as a dad of a former youth wrestler: In a lot of ways - the wrestling scene in SC is like little league baseball. Dads that wrestled, (or played baseball) coach their kids and become very involved in the local programs. They obviously become very focused on the team their son is on and everyone else is the competition. So most of the current youth programs and SCYWA itself are run by dads. The larger programs like JET, Eastside and Citadel have coaches that don't have sons on the team and were either very good high school wrestlers, or wrestled at the collegiate level. Those coaches push their kids to wrestle bigger tournaments, seek extra training like the Caveman's and even do some greco/freestyle. The big problem is the dads that run SCYWA and the dads that run USAW see each other as competition not as a resource to partner with and focus on making SC wrestling better. Additionally - because the state has so few former D1 even D2 wrestlers - the coaching pool needed with Fargo type experience is very limited. That's where the difference between little league and SC Youth Wrestling happens. From an early age, baseball has travel ball and showcase ball. The coaches are former college players or minor league players who coach because they love baseball.
I know zero about Georgia wrestling, but my guess would be that the sanctioning bodies coordinate with each other and strive to stay consistent. Additionally, I would guess based on simple population that there are many more college level former wrestlers who coach at the youth level. I would also guess that good high school teams and coaches help organize and support club teams.
If I won the lottery and had a ton of money to spend on SC Wrestling - this is what I would do:
I know zero about Georgia wrestling, but my guess would be that the sanctioning bodies coordinate with each other and strive to stay consistent. Additionally, I would guess based on simple population that there are many more college level former wrestlers who coach at the youth level. I would also guess that good high school teams and coaches help organize and support club teams.
If I won the lottery and had a ton of money to spend on SC Wrestling - this is what I would do:
- Develop Caveman like training centers around the state - start with the bigger areas - Greenville, Spartanburg, Rock Hill, Charleston, Anderson, and Myrtle Beach. (basically a model of Revolution MMA's gym) - coordinate with area high schools to travel to 'remote' high schools for mini clinics once or twice a month.
- Recruit and hire dedicated head coach and assistant coach for each location - someone like Trent with top level D1 experience. (provide solid salary and benefits so they won't feel the need to jump to another role)
- Create a 'board' of non-dads to coordinate tournaments and training opportunities between centers.
- Have both a folkstyle and a greco/freestyle season - then also have "duals" between training centers - invite NC and GA teams to participate.
- Offer middle school wrestlers free 'scholarships' to train at the training centers, and use a sliding scale based on participation in folkstyle and freestyle tournaments to determine the discounts for the high school wrestlers (participate in 75% of all tournaments - it's no cost to train, 50% - 1/2 price etc.)
- Create a points contest that provides top wrestlers trips to watch the NCAA's or win singlets, bags, headgear, shoes etc.
- Quarterly rotating camp with big name in the business.
There are lots of issues with SC kids not going to Fargo to wrestle.
1. Location- 1100 miles is tough to arrange travel.
2. Cost.- I know there are other states whose USA wrestling chapter will provide funds for a national team to offset costs of travel. Everyone seems to think GA is great, so lets use them as an example. Last year Team GA provided a week of Training with Former All American Jeff Regan and profided charter busses for kids to go. I am sure this wasnt all expenses paid, but they offset the cost. In Iowa, USA wrestling does a Fargo training camp where kids are training with the best in the world. Our State makes the kids buy expensive warmups so that our cloth companies can make money. Or the directors are "earning" trips to the Olympics to watch Snyder and Burroughs. Where does our money go?????
3. Eastside, JET, Fort Mill, Soda city, Electric City, etc are all good clubs because they are getting kids to work out. I dont think any have produced any fargo all americans, but neither has the caveman club. I dont remember Limestone having any all americans in recent years until Rudy and Johnson. Not including McMann. The previous clubs have produced top quality kids that are tough as nails.
4. The State schedule- the schedule read that on April 29, there was an iron-man tournament in Greenwood, yesterday I get an email that the tournament has moved to Fort Mill. Why the change? Did the tournament get taken from Greenwood? SC usawrestling never knows what the board is doing. they frequently show up late to tournaments and are so completely unorganized, it makes coaches/clubs not want to work in the spring because of crappy organization.
5. I have been in this state a long time (Im an immigrant as you can see by my name, ARRIVVAAAAA) and there is always some person that comes in and says they have the answer of getting SC wrestling great on a national level. Then their son moves to high school and they are silent about it. Or the energy drink fundraiser they have didnt work as well and they have to get a real job. There are great coaches like Chris Brock, Anthony Esposito, Marquise Camp, The JET group, The Goose Creek Group, the Soda Group, Gibby, Doug Crowder and more that want to make their kids the best possible. They arent just looking for a paycheck from the kids.
And lastly, please learn the English language. I am Mexican and I speak better than some of you..... Maybe Mexican schools are better than those in Iowa
1. Location- 1100 miles is tough to arrange travel.
2. Cost.- I know there are other states whose USA wrestling chapter will provide funds for a national team to offset costs of travel. Everyone seems to think GA is great, so lets use them as an example. Last year Team GA provided a week of Training with Former All American Jeff Regan and profided charter busses for kids to go. I am sure this wasnt all expenses paid, but they offset the cost. In Iowa, USA wrestling does a Fargo training camp where kids are training with the best in the world. Our State makes the kids buy expensive warmups so that our cloth companies can make money. Or the directors are "earning" trips to the Olympics to watch Snyder and Burroughs. Where does our money go?????
3. Eastside, JET, Fort Mill, Soda city, Electric City, etc are all good clubs because they are getting kids to work out. I dont think any have produced any fargo all americans, but neither has the caveman club. I dont remember Limestone having any all americans in recent years until Rudy and Johnson. Not including McMann. The previous clubs have produced top quality kids that are tough as nails.
4. The State schedule- the schedule read that on April 29, there was an iron-man tournament in Greenwood, yesterday I get an email that the tournament has moved to Fort Mill. Why the change? Did the tournament get taken from Greenwood? SC usawrestling never knows what the board is doing. they frequently show up late to tournaments and are so completely unorganized, it makes coaches/clubs not want to work in the spring because of crappy organization.
5. I have been in this state a long time (Im an immigrant as you can see by my name, ARRIVVAAAAA) and there is always some person that comes in and says they have the answer of getting SC wrestling great on a national level. Then their son moves to high school and they are silent about it. Or the energy drink fundraiser they have didnt work as well and they have to get a real job. There are great coaches like Chris Brock, Anthony Esposito, Marquise Camp, The JET group, The Goose Creek Group, the Soda Group, Gibby, Doug Crowder and more that want to make their kids the best possible. They arent just looking for a paycheck from the kids.
And lastly, please learn the English language. I am Mexican and I speak better than some of you..... Maybe Mexican schools are better than those in Iowa
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For middle and high school kids...quit wrestling every weekend. Practice, weight train, practice, weight train and wrestle the big tournaments! You see enough SC kids during the season. Go to Ga or NC! Go to Va Beach, Flo Nationals, War at the Shore, Super 32, Fargo, cadet/junior Duals!
Cutting weight in the off season sucks! Don't do it unless you are wrestling one of the big 4/5 tourneys. It's stupid to see kids miss weight at a local AAU tourney!
I believe training with Trent, JET, Eastside, Fort Mill, Compound, Strong and Courageous, Darkhorse, etc 4 times a week in the offseason is way more important than wrestling in a tournament every weekend.
Cutting weight in the off season sucks! Don't do it unless you are wrestling one of the big 4/5 tourneys. It's stupid to see kids miss weight at a local AAU tourney!
I believe training with Trent, JET, Eastside, Fort Mill, Compound, Strong and Courageous, Darkhorse, etc 4 times a week in the offseason is way more important than wrestling in a tournament every weekend.
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It would be nice to get a response from Caveman, countyboy and mommy, but Probably wont because I am a mexican and my votes dont count.
Trent you know me well, most of the programs still going on in the Iowa Wrestling Federation I was initiator of. I'm talking about regional training camps, getting 501C so we could do the $500 dollar raffle tickets to cut costs for Fargo (which you probably did), I also developed a good schedule every year. We had a state wide newspaper that we worked hard to get out 6 times a year for communication purposes. We bid our clothing packages out to keep them as low as possible. We did freestyle state club championships. And when I was there I set up the Fargo training camps 1st at Iowa, then Wartburg and later at the military base in Johnston.
You hit me up on not always coaching at tournaments when I am officiating (believe me I would a thousand times rather just coach, but with no one to officiate you can t have a tournament). Iowa now has a policy where if you are going to coach at their national team tournaments you must be a registered USA official and do so many tournaments during the season. This spreads out the burden and everyone can coach some of their kids. Officiating also does enhance your coaching.
Well doing this I have coached 14 Fargo All Americans including 5 finalist from my schools and several others where I was their club coaches.
I have tried to get some changes going here, my suggestion are not well accepted.
You hit me up on not always coaching at tournaments when I am officiating (believe me I would a thousand times rather just coach, but with no one to officiate you can t have a tournament). Iowa now has a policy where if you are going to coach at their national team tournaments you must be a registered USA official and do so many tournaments during the season. This spreads out the burden and everyone can coach some of their kids. Officiating also does enhance your coaching.
Well doing this I have coached 14 Fargo All Americans including 5 finalist from my schools and several others where I was their club coaches.
I have tried to get some changes going here, my suggestion are not well accepted.
This is the problem I see. The arrogance of his posts and demeaning verbiage of the other clubs are rude and uncalled for. He knows he is doing it but at the end says, don't take it the wrong way but I just want to be educated. That's non-sense. His arrogance will be the death of his club because what parent want's their son to learn this type of mentality? I sure don't. We need less arrogance in our children and more humbleness. I think we all agree on that.
If I lived in Greenville my # 1 preference for a club would be Eastside's club. It don't take a rocket scientist to see they are doing the right thing in that area. And those guys don't wrestle much Freestyle and Greco but win state titles on a regular basis.
Although I think that Fargo is a good tournament, you don't have to wrestle that tournament to be a great wrestler. We wrestle Freestyle and Greco to be better for the school season or "Folkstyle" wrestling.
The JET club has had two team state championships come out of their club in the past 3 years also (West-Oak). That's some education for you.
There is a need and purpose for training at all levels, Clubs, Dedicated Trainig Centers etc.
I think as a society in general today we are overly sensitive. If one says says we need a few dedicated facilities, with accomplished coaches...... some club coaches or parents of club coaches take that as a slight. Again both have a purpose and a role.
There are some great club coaches in the state that have proven to develop some quality wrestlers. If you happen to be someone who is close enough to be a part of that and can get quality training with quality partners year round, then you are fortunate and it's a win for everyone.
Digging deeper, a large majority of youth clubs and HS programs in the state don't train year round. Most practice in cafeterias etc around the other sports schedules, some schools have dedicated rooms in the state, but they are the fortunate minority. So access to just a PLACE to train in the state during season, but especially off season, is a challenge many have in this state. Some youth clubs in the state are ran by dads or volunteers with little to no wrestling experience, and some have a handful of kids with potential , but they lack training partners to push them. And very few conduct FS/GR training.
That is where dedicated training centers fill the void and why they are needed/ an important piece to the growth of wrestling in the state.
1) Any kid who wants to get out and train has accces to that year round. He doesn't have to miss out because his Club/Youth Club/HS team doesn't do off season training, Freestyle/Greco training.
2) It allows kids to develop their technique to a level needed to compete at the next level. . Having a proven coach running a program at a dedicated training center will certainly improve your kids wrestling ability.
3) Training Partners.. Training Partners.. Training Partners..... When your the best kid in the room within 2 weight classes it's never a good thing. And that is a scenario in allot of rooms. Really good kids need to train with other really good kids.... good kids with other good or really good kids... average kids with other good or average kids if they want to improve... A dedicated facility allows youth, MS , and HS kids from several schools/school districts to train with /push each other on a weekly basis throughout the year.
4) Dedicated facility and Coach not affiliated with a HS program reduces the politics and creates an open door feel for kids zoned in any program etc. In theory it doesn't create that situation where coach A doesn't run Off Season/FS/GR training, but doesn't want his kids training at Coach B's place who does the off season stuff.
The beauty and reality of it all is that it isn't a one or the other thing, all of this can co exist nicely and does just that in many states.
You will have kids who train full time at the dedicated centers.
You will have kids who train full time with local club and part time/get extra training at the dedicated centers.
You will have MS/HS kids who go to their practice and hit the training center after and on Sundays etc...
Buckkiller.... I don't believe you HAVE to wrestle at Fargo, that is an individuals choice. I think you can still achieve great things without going to Fargo or even wrestling FS/GR. That being said, I think it is a key component and certainly the statistics as it pertains to success at the D1 level back that up. I believe that if you have a kid that wants to be the best he can be in the sport, that if his goal is to wrestle at the next level, then you do what you can to get them there. The truth is any wrestler from SC fights an uphill battle to get recruited by a D1 program. In order to over come that we need to get our kids out as much as we can so coaches can see how they stack up at Fargo, Super 32, NHSCA, etc. If a kids goal is just to enjoy and compete in the sport while in HS, and to be the best wrestler in SC they can be, nothing wrong with that. However for the kids who aspire and dream bigger/want to achieve more in the sport, they need more then what is available to them right now in our state. And a big part of that equation is more/better training opportunities year round, including more participation in the Olympic Styles.
I think as a society in general today we are overly sensitive. If one says says we need a few dedicated facilities, with accomplished coaches...... some club coaches or parents of club coaches take that as a slight. Again both have a purpose and a role.
There are some great club coaches in the state that have proven to develop some quality wrestlers. If you happen to be someone who is close enough to be a part of that and can get quality training with quality partners year round, then you are fortunate and it's a win for everyone.
Digging deeper, a large majority of youth clubs and HS programs in the state don't train year round. Most practice in cafeterias etc around the other sports schedules, some schools have dedicated rooms in the state, but they are the fortunate minority. So access to just a PLACE to train in the state during season, but especially off season, is a challenge many have in this state. Some youth clubs in the state are ran by dads or volunteers with little to no wrestling experience, and some have a handful of kids with potential , but they lack training partners to push them. And very few conduct FS/GR training.
That is where dedicated training centers fill the void and why they are needed/ an important piece to the growth of wrestling in the state.
1) Any kid who wants to get out and train has accces to that year round. He doesn't have to miss out because his Club/Youth Club/HS team doesn't do off season training, Freestyle/Greco training.
2) It allows kids to develop their technique to a level needed to compete at the next level. . Having a proven coach running a program at a dedicated training center will certainly improve your kids wrestling ability.
3) Training Partners.. Training Partners.. Training Partners..... When your the best kid in the room within 2 weight classes it's never a good thing. And that is a scenario in allot of rooms. Really good kids need to train with other really good kids.... good kids with other good or really good kids... average kids with other good or average kids if they want to improve... A dedicated facility allows youth, MS , and HS kids from several schools/school districts to train with /push each other on a weekly basis throughout the year.
4) Dedicated facility and Coach not affiliated with a HS program reduces the politics and creates an open door feel for kids zoned in any program etc. In theory it doesn't create that situation where coach A doesn't run Off Season/FS/GR training, but doesn't want his kids training at Coach B's place who does the off season stuff.
The beauty and reality of it all is that it isn't a one or the other thing, all of this can co exist nicely and does just that in many states.
You will have kids who train full time at the dedicated centers.
You will have kids who train full time with local club and part time/get extra training at the dedicated centers.
You will have MS/HS kids who go to their practice and hit the training center after and on Sundays etc...
Buckkiller.... I don't believe you HAVE to wrestle at Fargo, that is an individuals choice. I think you can still achieve great things without going to Fargo or even wrestling FS/GR. That being said, I think it is a key component and certainly the statistics as it pertains to success at the D1 level back that up. I believe that if you have a kid that wants to be the best he can be in the sport, that if his goal is to wrestle at the next level, then you do what you can to get them there. The truth is any wrestler from SC fights an uphill battle to get recruited by a D1 program. In order to over come that we need to get our kids out as much as we can so coaches can see how they stack up at Fargo, Super 32, NHSCA, etc. If a kids goal is just to enjoy and compete in the sport while in HS, and to be the best wrestler in SC they can be, nothing wrong with that. However for the kids who aspire and dream bigger/want to achieve more in the sport, they need more then what is available to them right now in our state. And a big part of that equation is more/better training opportunities year round, including more participation in the Olympic Styles.
BuckkillerSc- You along with everyone else on here are missing the point I am making because of instantly getting on the defensive. Not once did I bash another club nor have I claimed one club(or my club) is better than any other. I am not arguing for one training center over any other at all which somehow it keeps coming back to. I am talking about South Carolina as a state not reaching its potential and pointing out the biggest difference
I havent read this yet but will tonight and respond. The mats are going down in THE CAVE today and havent had a chance.
So you think I'm missing the point of you being arrogant about this quote of yours about JET and their "coaches"? You don't think this has a hint of bashing added to it? Really? That alone is just arrogance!!
JET had 24 wrestlers in their facility last night practicing Freestyle and Greco. There were 3 coaches in that room not getting paid to be there. How do you consider that a lack of participation in this state? I can tell you that no one cares if another wrestler from JET goes and trains at another place. It's encouraged. JET has actually talked about taking Wrestlers to Compound so this quote of yours is wrong with a slight touch of arrogance added to it. Over the past 3 years JET has sent 16 wrestlers to Iowa to train with the Hawkeyes during their 2 week intensive camp and 12 wrestlers last year to Kolats 2 week intensive camp at Campbell. At zero cost to the wrestlers due to fundraising. That's roughly $25k that JET has put into this sport for SC wrestlers in 3 years. How in the world has or did any of my previous comments give you that little bit of insight before making that quote above?
I felt like his post about JET, Darkhorse, and Strong and Courageous were all bashing. I like what Caveman can offer but I feel like club owners should not bash other clubs.
The Cookie makers mom sent her son to Strong and Courageous. Does she feel like they used him as a practice dummy? Does she feel like they don't care about her kid? Just asking because that's what Cavemans original post said.
The Cookie makers mom sent her son to Strong and Courageous. Does she feel like they used him as a practice dummy? Does she feel like they don't care about her kid? Just asking because that's what Cavemans original post said.
I know exactly who this is and you actually coached me as well during the fargo camps even though I wrestled against your wrestlers regularly (usually your best one at the time and we became very good friends)and was in a club that competed against yours. No one is actually listening to anything I am saying instead getting defensive and telling everyone either how great they are as a coach or how great their club is. Not once have I nor will I list off any of my own credentials or tell anyone my club is superior to anyones. I am talking about our states ability to prepare and participate in the tournaments that are statistically proven year in and year out to be the most beneficial as a state and not as a bunch of individuals. It is great that we are getting kids on mats in sooo many different clubs all over the state and even in other states, and I encourage my kids to go to different clubs on a regular basis, and you can ask any one of them. Coach1950 I am sure you remember me even from when I was in grade school. I have no idea why we haven't taken advantage of having you in this state and tried to use your experience to grow the sport?? It has become quite obvious that we have a bunch of experts in here that have been doing great things for years in this state yet we have always been and will continue to be the bottom of the bucket when it comes to getting athletes to the highest levels, you would think that change would be something that is being demanded not begged for. p.s. thanks for letting my old wrestler and a few of your kids come up and get a practice in the week before NHSCA. I took advantage of having my old wrestler in and had him showing technique! Would love to have you on my mats anytime.
Eagle Hater(jealous?) What comments were "bashing" these clubs? Tell me one thing that i have said negative about any of them? I am going to assume it was the practice room dummies comment as no one likes being called a dummy haha. Practice room dummy refers to someone that limits their ability to improve by jumping room to room to room either in search of that secret move or thinking that they will improve at the same rate as the kids consistently in those clubs daily. It is common sense that a kid that learns, works, and competes for the same coaches will improve at a faster rate and even have a higher ceiling than those that continuously jump around. It is definitely important to get things from different clubs and coaches as well as to see different practice partners, but I gaurantee that the coaches at the clubs i listed will completely agree, as they are producing the best wrestlers around for the most part right now and have experience/seen what produces those athletes. Which is my entire argument and what the state needs to be doing and creating through competing and training for the best tournaments in the country(fargo and Cadet/junior duals) which is what i have been saying since the start. Where our best athletes, not just the ones that some dads pick out, are training together and preparing together while competing together as a state. It is a fact not opinion that this is what every other successful state does.
The "Cookie Makers" mom sent him to strong and courageous and all over in order to prepare for the National level tournaments that he needed to be competing in, mainly because the option to properly prepare was not available anywhere else. He was one of the only ones around wrestling in the highest level tournaments available, as well as he was at a higher level than most around because of his dedication to wrestling freestyle and greco in the summer in order to compete in the highest level tournaments available to him.
Buckkiller- How is me quoting you me being arrogant? Last time I checked you are the one that is making sure to let everyone know how great you are, I have never claimed to be anything other than educated in what we are doing as a state and what the more successful states are doing. I am sensing a little bit of insecurity when you get all uptight about something that you yourself said. Did you ever think that maybe the quote was because i would like some more information about these coaches, i even said i was asking because i wanted to be educated. I have not made a single claim to be better than any other club nor have I said anything about any of the coaches of other clubs. Yet, on the other side you have definitely felt the need to tell me just how much better your club is than mine because of state titles as well as eastside as they won the most state titles.
juliosuarez_002- You make some good points and are mentioning things that definitely are issues. The distance for sure is a problem however other states figure it out and a lot of the price issues come with numbers, the more you have going the cheaper it gets per person. I am good friends with Jeff Ragan and have had a lot of these same discussions with him when it comes to the states lack of participation in USA wrestling and what can be done to fix it. I also think I may know a thing or two about the way Iowa does things and what their camps consist of and have spent a lot of time on the phone lately with those directing things in Iowa trying to figure out how we can get better in the process.
I agree completely on the gear issue and those who know me have heard me complain of the same things. I have not been at Limestone for quite sometime and am not going to talk about any success or failure that I had while coaching there.
It does not matter to me who or which club is producing all americans as long as we are producing them as a state, and it would be nice to have more than just a couple at a time. The clubs you have listed definitely do have kids that are tough as nails, just think what they would get out of all training together for periods during the off season and then competing side by side with coaches from multiple places teaching and helping as much as they can? Once again telling me that these other clubs are tougher than mine is showing that you don't understand the point i am trying to make in the least bit, but just for the record I do hope that someday my club will have kids as tough as Eastside does since they have been listed more than once as the top club. I agree that the coaches you listed are good coaches and I believe I know a few of them....maybe. Which is why I think it would be great to have them combine their kids, coach them together, all while learning from one another and even becoming better coaches in the process as well. If you are saying that I am only looking to make a paycheck from any kids then i more than likely just wasted my breath on all of this because you have no idea what you are talking about and don't actually know anything about me in the least bit, if you actually do know the coaches you list I would encourage you to ask them if they believe I am out looking for a paycheck.
swutiger- Your post is the most well informed and intelligent post on this entire thread.
BuckKiller- You are misreading and confusing arrogance and experience/confidence. Not to mention putting emphasis on state success (which is great and everyone should strive for) where I have been only talking about trying to improve the states ability to compete nationally and send more kids to higher level colleges. I completely agree that if i had a child who wanted to wrestle I would definitely attempt to get them doing the things that the Eastside club does as i also believe it is quite obvious they are doing the right thing and even believe their coaches are even trying to improve the chances of them having opportunities to wrestle at the collegiate level along with win state titles.
I would really like to hear of some wrestlers you consider to be a "great wrestler" that didn't wrestle freestyle or greco. Maybe even just for fun look at some statistics or numbers when it comes to the D1 tournament and having participated in the large freestyle/greco tournants. i wonder if that even exists or anyone has ever thought of doing such a thing? Again, state titles are great, and I am glad JET has been getting them, but I have been talking about the sates ability to gain success at the national level in turn creating more opportunities for our athletes at the collegiate level. Thank you for educating me on the JET club, their coaches, and the success they have experienced.
The "Cookie Makers" mom sent him to strong and courageous and all over in order to prepare for the National level tournaments that he needed to be competing in, mainly because the option to properly prepare was not available anywhere else. He was one of the only ones around wrestling in the highest level tournaments available, as well as he was at a higher level than most around because of his dedication to wrestling freestyle and greco in the summer in order to compete in the highest level tournaments available to him.
Buckkiller- How is me quoting you me being arrogant? Last time I checked you are the one that is making sure to let everyone know how great you are, I have never claimed to be anything other than educated in what we are doing as a state and what the more successful states are doing. I am sensing a little bit of insecurity when you get all uptight about something that you yourself said. Did you ever think that maybe the quote was because i would like some more information about these coaches, i even said i was asking because i wanted to be educated. I have not made a single claim to be better than any other club nor have I said anything about any of the coaches of other clubs. Yet, on the other side you have definitely felt the need to tell me just how much better your club is than mine because of state titles as well as eastside as they won the most state titles.
juliosuarez_002- You make some good points and are mentioning things that definitely are issues. The distance for sure is a problem however other states figure it out and a lot of the price issues come with numbers, the more you have going the cheaper it gets per person. I am good friends with Jeff Ragan and have had a lot of these same discussions with him when it comes to the states lack of participation in USA wrestling and what can be done to fix it. I also think I may know a thing or two about the way Iowa does things and what their camps consist of and have spent a lot of time on the phone lately with those directing things in Iowa trying to figure out how we can get better in the process.
I agree completely on the gear issue and those who know me have heard me complain of the same things. I have not been at Limestone for quite sometime and am not going to talk about any success or failure that I had while coaching there.
It does not matter to me who or which club is producing all americans as long as we are producing them as a state, and it would be nice to have more than just a couple at a time. The clubs you have listed definitely do have kids that are tough as nails, just think what they would get out of all training together for periods during the off season and then competing side by side with coaches from multiple places teaching and helping as much as they can? Once again telling me that these other clubs are tougher than mine is showing that you don't understand the point i am trying to make in the least bit, but just for the record I do hope that someday my club will have kids as tough as Eastside does since they have been listed more than once as the top club. I agree that the coaches you listed are good coaches and I believe I know a few of them....maybe. Which is why I think it would be great to have them combine their kids, coach them together, all while learning from one another and even becoming better coaches in the process as well. If you are saying that I am only looking to make a paycheck from any kids then i more than likely just wasted my breath on all of this because you have no idea what you are talking about and don't actually know anything about me in the least bit, if you actually do know the coaches you list I would encourage you to ask them if they believe I am out looking for a paycheck.
swutiger- Your post is the most well informed and intelligent post on this entire thread.
BuckKiller- You are misreading and confusing arrogance and experience/confidence. Not to mention putting emphasis on state success (which is great and everyone should strive for) where I have been only talking about trying to improve the states ability to compete nationally and send more kids to higher level colleges. I completely agree that if i had a child who wanted to wrestle I would definitely attempt to get them doing the things that the Eastside club does as i also believe it is quite obvious they are doing the right thing and even believe their coaches are even trying to improve the chances of them having opportunities to wrestle at the collegiate level along with win state titles.
I would really like to hear of some wrestlers you consider to be a "great wrestler" that didn't wrestle freestyle or greco. Maybe even just for fun look at some statistics or numbers when it comes to the D1 tournament and having participated in the large freestyle/greco tournants. i wonder if that even exists or anyone has ever thought of doing such a thing? Again, state titles are great, and I am glad JET has been getting them, but I have been talking about the sates ability to gain success at the national level in turn creating more opportunities for our athletes at the collegiate level. Thank you for educating me on the JET club, their coaches, and the success they have experienced.
SButler-you are hitting the nail directly on the head. Everyone is getting all defensive so fast on this board that they don't understand or think about what is even being discussed but instead defending their club or coach. The only reason I even posted on this board in the first place(knowing the type of responses I would get) is because i care about the kids in this state and the opportunities they have to pursue their dreams and goals at the next level. The only reason I am even willing to debate these things on this board is because i care about the kids, it is frustrating watching people that think they know everything limit the success and opportunities of kids that work their tails off. Especially when it is happening because of people pretending to be experts in something they are not. We have a lot of resources as well as expertise in this state that is being shut down and not listened to by those with little to no experience or knowledge. I would actually like to talk to you over the phone or in person more about some of this stuff if you would possibly message me your contact.
LOL....... I am not a coach. I am a supporter of JET. I have no vested interest in the club other than they have turned my kids in to young men. I will continue to support JET even as my kids graduate. MY post as I said before was to let everyone know JET has started and come get some training with some great coaches, Adam Duncan, Al Billings, Glen Muncy, Mike Conner, Patrick James. These are GREAT coaches with over 100 years experience between them all (like you don't know who they are). By adding that "how many has JET sent to Fargo" was to say, you guys are not doing the right stuff OR do they coach their wrestlers at these tournaments. The insecurity lies within you because you know that you JET is a great club and you try to cast doubt on the club with your comments. That's childish games you play especially when my post wasn't directed at to a panel of forum users that live in the surrounding counties around Oconee county. The adults on this page know's what you are doing. We hope you are successful with your program but leave the ones that been up and running for 15 or more years alone and your childish comments to yourself. How many wrestlers have you raised money for to send them to great camps? Have you gone that extra step for your club, for your wrestlers? Have you given $25K to a group of kids over the past 3 years? BTW, we will probably raise another $15K this summer to send more wrestlers to GREAT camps. It just keeps adding up for the benefit of the wrestlers and SC. Wrestlers are first priority for JET.
We are believers in Freestyle and Greco. This will be my kids 4th summer wrestling it. We travel more to GA to wrestle during the summer because the competition is much better there but also wrestle in SC. My boys gets their butt kicked all the time in GA but it helps them during the school year. We wrestle freestyle/greco to help with school season wrestling. You should load up your group and take them to a GA tournamet, Woodland, Alexander, Newnan, LIfe and Paulding. When a club puts 24 kids in a room for F/G practice, that shows that JET is a great club. Any club in SC that works for the "wrestlers and puts them first" are great clubs.
Let me name a few wrestlers for you. I have never seen AJ wrestle F/G, and I don't think Clary did. Did they go to Fargo? I have never seen Eddie Smith (National Champ for BHP and BHP trained) wrestle F/G or Jordie White (going to be a 4 timer i'm sure). Do you not consider these kids great wrestlers? I don't have to do research to see who doesn't wrestle F/G because I am at most of the SC tournaments and see who is there. All state champs at JET wrestle F/G by the way. Good luck with your club.
I'm not jealous sir! Apparently you and your followers are the only one that didn't take your comments as bashing other clubs.
Why even mention the other clubs? Trust me, I wouldn't take my kids to any club that didn't benefit them!
You are correct, this has turned into a defensive discussion. I'm going to remove myself from it. Good luck with your club! Good Luck to SC wrestlers!
Why even mention the other clubs? Trust me, I wouldn't take my kids to any club that didn't benefit them!
You are correct, this has turned into a defensive discussion. I'm going to remove myself from it. Good luck with your club! Good Luck to SC wrestlers!
Buckkiller... let me say that it sounds like you guys got a really good thing going there with the Jet group and are doing all the right things to help/improve your kids and in return help grow wrestling in SC.
The type of club as you describe Jet is what should be the backbone of the state. If we had a bunch of clubs operating like Jet throughout the state, then you throw in some dedicated facilities (3-4), for opportunities I discussed in previous post, placed in ideal locations around the state and that would be the perfect scenario. Again you guys are fortunate to have that in place for your kids.
The only thing I think you and I will have to disagree on a little is the big picture with FS/GR , Fargo etc. You mention some really good wrestlers from SC that don't wrestle FS/GR, go to Fargo and are still successful. I believe as I said previously that you can achieve great things without wrestling FS/GR, but I would say and the numbers back up that you greatly reduce your odds/shrink the pool sort of speak. Good luck to you guys this weekend.
The type of club as you describe Jet is what should be the backbone of the state. If we had a bunch of clubs operating like Jet throughout the state, then you throw in some dedicated facilities (3-4), for opportunities I discussed in previous post, placed in ideal locations around the state and that would be the perfect scenario. Again you guys are fortunate to have that in place for your kids.
The only thing I think you and I will have to disagree on a little is the big picture with FS/GR , Fargo etc. You mention some really good wrestlers from SC that don't wrestle FS/GR, go to Fargo and are still successful. I believe as I said previously that you can achieve great things without wrestling FS/GR, but I would say and the numbers back up that you greatly reduce your odds/shrink the pool sort of speak. Good luck to you guys this weekend.
@CavemanMMA just FYI the SCYWA state championship HS division was the qualifier for Team Palmetto this year ( this was changed at last years summer meeting)
BuckKillerSC-How did I bash JET? I honestly did not know where JET was nor who any of the coaches were as I have not been involved with this age group in the state until recently nor was I responsible for our states representation at the largest tournament in the world until very recently. I know those coaches and they are great coaches and ones that I would definitely want to be working with and coaching athletes going to represent our state at the highest level. You keep going back to a pissing contest between JET and the club I have now opened and all of the other clubs in the state. You need to understand that you are not getting what I am saying in the least bit and getting caught up and arguing something that I am not even saying. I am saying that we need to have ALL of the best coaches and the best athletes in the state in the same place at the same time for periods during the year training together, coaching each other, and competing together at the highest level tournaments(the ones that will show them what the next level is all about and get them the attention and opportunities they deserve) When I asked how many did JET send to fargo it was not a dig at the club by any means it was simply pointing back to one of the major and obvious issues it has with this state not being able to compete with others as well as not being able to get kids to the next level as others, which is that we do not combine resources and athletes in order to better everyone. The thought process of this is how we have always done it or "we have been doing it this way for 15 years" is not acceptable, and even proves my point in that it is quite obvious changes need to be made, you keep hinting that I am trying to promote my own club or make money off of the posts I am making or something when I have not talked about myself or my club at all. I am doing this because I care about the kids in this state and their ability to get the opportunities they deserve and accomplish the goals they have. State titles are great, everyone in every state works towards them, however the value put on a s.c. state title right now in a college coaches eye is almost the lowest of any state-because we do not compete or prepare at the same level as other states nationally. I am sure if you ask one of the JET coaches Mr. Al Billings he would agree completely and is one of the few in the state that have personal experience when it comes to having kids go to the next level and having success at the division I level. It is awesome that JET raises money and sends kids to camps and has been doing so for 15 plus years and I am sure that it has benefited the kids greatly as well as had a large effect on all of the state titles they have won. It still hasn't produced what I would like to think everyone strives for and that is athletes competing and experiencing success at the Division I level or even the international level. I am passionate about this state being capable of much more than what we are currently showing and am stubborn enough to enter into debates such as this as long as it takes and with whomever until we are meeting our potential as a state. You trying to say that I don't work for my wrestlers or even that i don't put them first shows that you truly know nothing about me nor do you get that all of my posts are actually attempting to completely put the kids first by doing everything we can to get the most out of the states best athletes and coaches. I would like you to define just what it is that you believe to be a "Great Wrestler", and then tell me if you believe that to be the same definition across the country and in Division I college coaches? Trust me, I have had these same discussions and argued the same thing to Clary, Leitten, and Jordie, along with all of their parents. Eddie Smith is a 1%er and his Coach being willing to take him to NHSCA was enough for him to get attention and I am actually doing everything I can to help with his visits and make sure that he is placed somewhere that he can be set up in life and sport. Even to the extent that my own extended family will be driving to meet him and help facilitate his visits as well as let him know he has a support network while there. I am not going to try and list names or credentials to you in order to prove my worth or garner your respect, because it doesn't really matter to me what you think of me or any of the athletes I get the opportunity to work with because I am not in it for any recognition I am in it 100% for the wrestlers in this state to have the life changing opportunities and experiences I have and for them to achieve the potential that is here. "to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" should be a quote that the coaches and those responsible for the athletes in this state look at. I understand through stories and the countless hours of conversation I have had with different coaches across the state now that past events through USA wrestling have created this negative attitude towards USA wrestling and Fargo. It is our responsibility as former wrestlers and wrestling coaches to fight to improve it and create what our athletes deserve instead of quit on it.
-Eagle Hater- I brought up other clubs because it shows that as a state we actually realize that we need to do things in order to get our kids the best training and opportunities, yet we don't do so among our own state. Somehow it has become a pissing match in this state between coaches, clubs, and schools to the point that there is a common theme of not wanting kids to work out with one another in state or with other coaches in state, yet it is common and approved to go out of state and do the same thing. It is great that this state has as many clubs and people involved as it does and honestly I had no idea just how many it had, if we would just combine forces to represent the state nationally the way it deserves (like every other state does) it would increase opportunities for our athletes immediately.
-SButler- I could not agree more. JET is doing the right things and should be the backbone as they have been established for 15 years and have proven to create opportunities. As a backbone or an established club it would be nice if they got on board or even were the ones pushing to try and take things even to the next level. It would be nice to see at least double digit numbers from this state competing at the Division I tournament in the near future instead of 1 at a time. There is no reason we shouldnt be already and we have to take responsibility for it on our own shoulders unless it is actually a belief that this state is not capable of producing athletes on that level and have given up. It could be that maybe I am just young enough to be stupid enough to believe that we are capable of more and willing to take the heat I am when fighting for it. Whatever the case, I refuse to believe that we cant be sending and putting more kids at higher levels, and even have more competing at the highest level both college and internationally. As you stated, the numbers and statistics more than back up everything I have been saying, regardless of what anyones opinion is of me numbers don't lie.
Randombystander-Thanks for correcting me on that and educating me as I was wrong and am very glad that I was. I knew at one point Team Palmetto wrestled off for spots, since that was what was happening when I was letting them use my wrestling room years ago. I was just going off of complaints I hear multiple times, and stand corrected completely.
I understand why my posts are creating the emotions that they are in certain people, and why even I am being taken in the wrong way or my intentions are being misinterpreted. The knee jerk reaction is to get instantly defensive and tell me all the reasons why what you or your kids are doing is so great, since most of us are in this solely for the kids....anyone who gets into the sport of wrestling especially coaches expecting to make money or garner attention themselves is in for a rude awakening. If we don't try and make adjustments, evolve, and improve over all as a state we will just keep on falling behind. Lets force the changes, create the opportunities, leave egos behind and be willing to support and help the best we have regardless of whether or not they are from a different school or club. I have witnessed myself that it is possible in this state to do just that but it takes a lot of effort and time. I knew before I even started to type originally on this board what I was facing, but I am willing to debate for hours, learn and share information, and sacrifice my own time and money not to mention ruffle some feathers and make some people dislike me along the way. South Carolina wrestling deserves to be represented nationally at a much higher level and it is time we start combining forces to do so.
-Eagle Hater- I brought up other clubs because it shows that as a state we actually realize that we need to do things in order to get our kids the best training and opportunities, yet we don't do so among our own state. Somehow it has become a pissing match in this state between coaches, clubs, and schools to the point that there is a common theme of not wanting kids to work out with one another in state or with other coaches in state, yet it is common and approved to go out of state and do the same thing. It is great that this state has as many clubs and people involved as it does and honestly I had no idea just how many it had, if we would just combine forces to represent the state nationally the way it deserves (like every other state does) it would increase opportunities for our athletes immediately.
-SButler- I could not agree more. JET is doing the right things and should be the backbone as they have been established for 15 years and have proven to create opportunities. As a backbone or an established club it would be nice if they got on board or even were the ones pushing to try and take things even to the next level. It would be nice to see at least double digit numbers from this state competing at the Division I tournament in the near future instead of 1 at a time. There is no reason we shouldnt be already and we have to take responsibility for it on our own shoulders unless it is actually a belief that this state is not capable of producing athletes on that level and have given up. It could be that maybe I am just young enough to be stupid enough to believe that we are capable of more and willing to take the heat I am when fighting for it. Whatever the case, I refuse to believe that we cant be sending and putting more kids at higher levels, and even have more competing at the highest level both college and internationally. As you stated, the numbers and statistics more than back up everything I have been saying, regardless of what anyones opinion is of me numbers don't lie.
Randombystander-Thanks for correcting me on that and educating me as I was wrong and am very glad that I was. I knew at one point Team Palmetto wrestled off for spots, since that was what was happening when I was letting them use my wrestling room years ago. I was just going off of complaints I hear multiple times, and stand corrected completely.
I understand why my posts are creating the emotions that they are in certain people, and why even I am being taken in the wrong way or my intentions are being misinterpreted. The knee jerk reaction is to get instantly defensive and tell me all the reasons why what you or your kids are doing is so great, since most of us are in this solely for the kids....anyone who gets into the sport of wrestling especially coaches expecting to make money or garner attention themselves is in for a rude awakening. If we don't try and make adjustments, evolve, and improve over all as a state we will just keep on falling behind. Lets force the changes, create the opportunities, leave egos behind and be willing to support and help the best we have regardless of whether or not they are from a different school or club. I have witnessed myself that it is possible in this state to do just that but it takes a lot of effort and time. I knew before I even started to type originally on this board what I was facing, but I am willing to debate for hours, learn and share information, and sacrifice my own time and money not to mention ruffle some feathers and make some people dislike me along the way. South Carolina wrestling deserves to be represented nationally at a much higher level and it is time we start combining forces to do so.
http://www.flowrestling.org/article/53013-ncaas-by-the-numbers#.WN3n5XMpDZE
Is this really all we are capable of, is our goal, or are satisfied with?? If not then i would suggest we work together to make changes and improvements. If it is then i guess feel free to continue on defending and being happy with this representation.
Is this really all we are capable of, is our goal, or are satisfied with?? If not then i would suggest we work together to make changes and improvements. If it is then i guess feel free to continue on defending and being happy with this representation.
I believe the numbers would be better with more D1 college wrestling in the state. I've seen some studs go D2 or not wrestle at all in college because the cost of going out of state is high and scholarship money is low. Or that's been the complaint.
I agree that nobody should be satisfied with one qualifier from the state, but I believe a more accurate statistic would be a percentage, number of qualifiers per number of HS wrestlers in the state. Don't know what those numbers are but pretty sure we can get number of HS participants from the NFHS website and then get a more representative % to compare to other states.
Don't get me wrong, I agree getting wrestlers more opportunities should be the focus of SCUSA and SCWAY (or whatever their initials are) but I believe you are fighting an uphill battle. Most of our HS coaches are focusing on their program and winning state titles. Which, as you said, means next to nothing on the national scene. Especially now that we have 4 classes. Most of these kids will never get looked at without going to national events. The HS coaches are not going to change their focus. People like yourself are going to have to attempt to unify the state.
We need one board, one organization (not two), several leaders in the state, to unify everybody towards the national events. Two different organizations has not worked to unify the state and never will. The nature of two is inherently separate (political parties, USFL/NFL, etc) and doesn't work. There will always be those who do not want to or will not follow the lead of unifying the state (wrestlers are hard headed, confident and think they are right the majority of the time), this makes it hard to allow others to lead. It is what is needed and I applaud your efforts. Best of luck to you.
I am confident the SC officials association will help in any way we can to improve opportunities for SC wrestlers on the national level.
TBowe
I think there MIGHT be an element of this MAYBE but I'm not sure I'm super sold on it.
I've been trying to hammer the point home that the 2 Sanctioning bodies is a bad thing for the state, for all the reasons I broke down in a previous post. The two don't work together and everything is territorial.
To change the wrestling culture in the state it has to start at the youth level. So that is a big part of problem.
Trent,
You are a very confused person. I really believe this. I'm not sure if you are acting or just confused.
I'm going to hit on this comment by you one more time. I stated before that JET encourages our wrestlers to get all the training they want and to try other places if they want to. We don't care if they go try out new places because we know they will be back and be able to share anything they have learned on the mat. That happens a lot especially when we send them to good camps. The wrestlers actually come back and somewhat coach a new move. They teach their team.
So I was trolling your FB page yesterday and came across an interesting video. Now please understand, I didn't know this happened until yesterday. I noticed two previous JET and West Oak wrestlers in your facility. Were they helping you coach your club? Now don't get me wrong, I think that's great that you have two JET trained college wrestlers that went to Fargo helping you train your club. Please imagine that big smile that came over my face. But I did notice 3 JET youth wrestlers in your club. Now this was March 15th and you make the statements about the "great coaching we have", and how we don't want "OUR" kids to train anywhere else. So I call Adam and ask him about it and he said he was asked if it was ok and he said sure take them up there. Great idea. I now find your comments so amusing and see your integrity level drop several levels. Now understand that we work hard to make JET very successful and it makes us happy to see our previous and or current wrestlers help make other clubs successful. I would like to think it's because of the time their HS and JET coaches as well as their families help them with wrestling and everyday life.
So for you to make that quoted comment above, well is just funny since JET ran a practice for you and you actually ask, who is JET? Come on dude. I hope your club is successful but right now you're hurting it with this crap. You should stop.
Now here is another subject that you actually should be working on. Since you are on the SC USA wrestling board, you should really start working on those guys to make things better in this state. Not the clubs but your colleagues. The head guy needs to retire and forget about SC wrestling. Mike Powell should assume his duties and all of you guys should start there to make the wrestling better in SC. IF not, I challenge all of the SC clubs that host tournaments to drop SC USA wrestling, take out their own insurance and run the tournaments independently until our current system is repaired. It's broken and very obvious that it is. IF everyone cares about the wrestling, we will have plenty of volunteers to help, support the clubs hosting the tournaments independently. IF the clubs in the state will stop paying SC USA to waste the money they take in they will make a big change. IF you want to help SC wrestling, it should start with the leaders of SC Wrestling. The clubs are doing fine on their own and don't need help. They don't need to be coached.
Bingo! Nuway, or whatever it is called during folkstyle season then transition to freestyle/Greco. Completely cull the SCUSA leadership and revamp. Have SCUSA raise money to promote freestyle season DURING folkstyle season so the best kids (and everyone else) are aware, have a points system to seed a "final wrestle-off" for the Fargo team, have a training camp for those individuals and alternates, and then FUND THAT TEAMS TRAVEL TO FARGO.
From what I see, these schools/clubs host their tournaments to make their fundraising money and then hit the road to Ga or NC to wrestle. I'd like to see all clubs post their FS/GR schedule. Then we will see who really supports SCUSAW. Problem is the guys that can make change won't speak up for fear of the blacklist.